I don't think you read my whole post.....These are not orcs or elves, they are simply your own figures. So no control zones.



Anyways, I think I am done here. It feels like I'm banging my head against a wall. I don't think I'll ever have to game against oldmanwillow, so I don't really need to convince him how to play. He can play how he likes, as long as his opponents agree.

But trees are considered Impassible terrain so this rule wouldn't apply to trees. I'm going with the majority here.

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http://drinkingwotr.blogspot.com/ - Links to my CrAzY House Rules, Games and 'poor man's' terrain.

Canada is a bit far. You would be welcome. You would have fun. I do not build terrain that is any way difficult to understand.Disputes or much easier to resolve in person.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

Oldman WIllow
Please respond to
a) trees are over double the height of your model so cannot be climbed and must be instead circumnavigated
b) page 19 the box regarding woodland terrain
c) trees can appear outside a woodland without being woodland terrain as apparent in any battle in far harad.
d) the fact that so far you bring no evidence to show that a tree is not an obstruction for the purposes of movement as a pillar or statue would be.
e) the fact that the rulebook states you cannot climb or jump something more than twice your height and most trees are more than 54mm tall.
f) in regards to e, even if it did count as a climbable surface the elven rules do not allow for "better climbing ability"

Tree blocks movement, otherwise you have to assume that:

Walls don't block movement
Other models that are in combat don't block movement (due to not having a control zone).


An idea of difficult terrain being difficult terrain, and hence nothing within it being used as obstacles is stupid. Why? Because ruins also are often classed as difficult terrain and they contain huge walls often too. If you follow the tree idea of not blocking movement then you have to follow the ruin, essentially making it useless to have the ruin there. Aka. a 10 metre wide/10 metre high wall DOES NOT stop models from moving through... any more logic?

Otherwise the 10+ GTs I've been to and 95% of the internet got it wrong

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Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

Oldmanwillow plays differently to the majority here. In tournaments i've been in, we would have to measure around the tree(s) taking into account any 'woodland type' rules. By the sounds of it OMW doesn't measure movement around individual trees (perhaps suggesting the warrior quickly skirts around it). It is minimal movement we are talking about but can have serious effects when it comes to LOS and being able to charge opponents.

At the end of the day it's a game and we can play at home how we like

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The Southern Fiefdoms: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21928

Re: woodland terrain

Unread postby cereal_theif » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:13 am
Oldman WIllow
Please respond to

no and yes. Yes they must be circumnavigated. You may agree to treat trees as obstacles but they would be obstacles in woodland terrain. 1/2 rate plus climb rules. It would take quite some time to get over something like that.

poorly written example. Remember the debate over what blocking means and control zones.

as decoration no effect on movement or LOS, Better as WYSAWYG or depend on model.

It is exactly the same as a pillar and has to be measured around but at half rate.

You may take several turns to climb an object. That would not be normal in most games.

true.

I would like to take some time to answer this with illustrations. I have to drive to Peachtree City to take my very elderly mother to the doctor. It will take most of the day. I will make some photos illustrations tonight.
My answer depends on WYSIWYG and the definition of LOS
The short answer is. If the figure can see past the tree to charge or shoot at the target. Movement 1/2 rate. If LOS is blocked you can not shoot and must measure around the base of the object and take any movement penalty.
A tree is a woodland terrain feature unless you state before hand it is something else.Half rate movement for woodland terrain. If you measure around a wire tree trunk as well you may do so. I hope that 1/32 inch matters a lot.

_________________
"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

D. as you just said yourself it "has to be measured AROUND, but at half rate." Our whole discussion here is that you HAVE TO GO AROUND THE TREE. IF YOU CAN JUST GO THROUGH A TREE, YOU COULD ALSO GO THROUGH DOORS OR OTHER MODELS, BUT YOU CAN'T. Yes you could house rule, yes you are encouraged to come up with your own rules, but this is pure idiocy.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Hehe, personally, no offence, I would suggest everybody to stop posting in this thread because Oldman Willow clearly "Knows better". It's just one of those people who won't be persuaded by reason and logic and know better anyway. Save yourself the nerves OR users

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

Haha, you just described Obama.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Response to D...
Basically we agree then... you must go around a tree?

BlackMist, If I was presented with reason and logic I could be convinced. But you would rather resort to put downs. May be you should spend some time in "time out" until you learn some manners.

May be you should read the rules on doors.

I have had enough of the put downs and insulting remarks. The Obama remarks are fighting words.

You should remove them.
The sad thing is this has degenerated to this point.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

Yes, the difference is over the wording, Blocking movement. Blocking means movement is blocked or prevented. Walls don't block movement if they can be climbed. Walls effect movement. The statement trees block movement is the issue. Enemy models block movement until certain conditions are meet. Trees do not block movement they effect movement.It makes a big difference to understanding the rules. If it did not we would not have all of these comments about doors and walls and LOS
The distance around a wire tree trunk is less than 1/32. If you want, add it to the half movement to cross.The tree can not stop you from crossing. It only effects the distance moved. The tree will not stop, block, the elf's from passing through the orc line so long as the are out side the control zone of the orcs.

_________________
"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

The sad thing is that we HAVE used logic and reason, but since you refuse to listen to them, you have earned yourself the put downs, AND the Obama remark.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

No, that last bit is you doing the escalating. Leave the politics out of it, it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

@OMW: I don't get your claim of lack of logic. Logic dictates moving around a physical object. Really simple, end of story.

The Obama remark was actually in response to the way BlackMist described him, it's just that he took it as meaning himself (granted that's kinda how I meant it).

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

This is an extremely stupid argument.... from what i have read you guys are just arguing about the same thing except you are using different words to describe the same thing, And the only thing you are really arguing about is what the word "Block" means.

Draugluin:

I don't know if i read this right.. But are you saying if you put a random tree somewhere on the field and if there was a model directly behind it and another model on the exact opposite side each model would be able to shoot at each other? That doesn't sound right... If it was a small tree then i would say yes but you would still need a in the way test or something but if it was an average sized tree i would say no.

Pretty much.. Woodland terrain means you have to move at half speed unless you have the woodland creature rule if there is a tree in the woodland terrain you have to move around it... Thats pretty much all i got to say lol.

That's exactly what we've been saying, except for oldmanwillow. What I was saying in the above quote is that is the ONLY case that I can see a tree not counting as being there. OMW was/is saying that trees are physical objects and that you can move through them because they are only to make the wooded terrain look good. I was saying that if you have a tree there just to look good, without it actually "being there" then it wouldn't be wysiwyg, in which case it also wouldn't affect LOS or ITW. If it can't block a person, then it's also not gonna block an arrow or photons (by his reasoning, not mine).

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Lol im still a bit confused by what your saying..


Sooo its a physical object but you can walk through it? so it's not physical? im confused



If you have a tree there just to look good and its not affecting line of sight it may aswell not be there, which im guessing is what you mean by that?

Yes, I was saying that if you can walk through it (as omw says, not what I say) then the tree should also not effect LOS or ITW, in other words it shouldn't be there (using his logic, not mine). I was just pointing out how stupid that is, in a confusing way, I guess.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.