Goblin drum = banner for victory points?

simmuskhan · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:10 am

Going to fight first game under new rules (hopefully) this week.
Some scenarios have banner related victory points.
Do the goblins count the drum as a banner? While it's being played it works in a similar way.
Just wondering? Otherwise what are the banner options without allies?

imrail · **Joined:** Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:24 pm **Posts:** 666

The Goblins don't have any banners.
The drums do work as a banner, so in a matter of speaking the drums are banners.

I would let them count as banners, if your opponent agrees.

The Horde Lord · **Joined:** Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:58 pm **Posts:** 301

No it's not a banner. I believe the rules for the drum only says "count as if they are within range of a benner" or "gets to re-roll one dice". It does not count as a banner for the purpose of these scenarios. Its a factor that makes the goblins a very different faction, distinguishes it more from mordor.

simmuskhan · **Posted:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:34 pm

So the question then is how do you play at tournaments?
Do you ally in a banner, concede victory points or use the English language to say that "remain" implies you started with something?

Chris GoM · **Posted:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:05 pm

From a RaW point of view (which is probably what tournaments would do), I would say that Drums don't count as banners, if it said "Goblin Drums count as being a banner" (whereas Frodo of the Nine Fingers would), then I would say they do count, but as it doesn't mention even mention banners, it doesn't count as one (on a side note, you could then benefit from two banner re-rolls if you have multiple attacks in the combat (whereas you can't for Gundabad Drums))

But, I would play it that it does count as banner in friendly games, as it's already a lot of points

I hope this helps

simmuskhan · **Posted:** Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:56 am

So then I guess you won't see moria armies in tournaments with the new rules? Or will they use different victory conditions? Can't imagine giving up 2 victory points right off the bat? (I don't play tournaments so I don't care myself, just interested to hear from those who do!)

The Horde Lord · **Joined:** Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:58 pm **Posts:** 301

They would do what all tournament people do, ally in whatever they need form wherever they want.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:48 pm

They probably wouldn't bther wilth banners in tourneys, even with the new VP, banners still wion't be a common occurrance in a GT.

simmuskhan · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:00 am

As I said already, I don't play tournaments, so this is all purely for my own interest!

In other threads people talk about tournaments giving players points based on theme (with more points for sticking within your own faction etc.)

It seems like that would make for a double-whammy against moria as you'd lose victory points for not having a banner AND if you do ally in a banner you also lose points for going outside the theme.

I know it appears as though different tournaments put different emphasis on a variety of aspects of the game, but I'm still interested in how WAAC and/or experienced and/or people who play in different types of tournaments feel about that.

I also wonder why people don't use banners?

Just curious is all!

Cheers and thanks for all the responses, I really love knowing how other people play and approach the game!
Sim.

Goblin drum = banner for victory points?

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