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 Post subject: Wood Elf upgrades SBG
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:36 pm 
Kinsman
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Wood elves can get both of the new Titled Upgrades in SBG.

Two arguments for it:

A) There is no rule against it, so they can. Harad Warriors, and Black Numenorians can't have both their Titled Upgrades because it specifically says they can't. No rule restricts Wood Elves, so Thranduil can find as many wood elfs that are Noldorian Exiles and recruit them into his Mirkwood Guards.

Someone in another thread objected: “Wood Elves upgraded to Noldorian Exiles become a Different Unit Type, and no longer Wood Elves. Only Wood Elves can be upgraded to Mirkwood Guards.”

B) But the new titles don't by themselves create a Different Unit Type.
Osgilieth Veterans are not just Minas Tirith Warriors with a stat upgrade (even though only one stat is different). No: they are clearly a Different Unit Type, with its own profile, options and model.

BN Venomblade Knights are just BN with a stat upgrade. The title alone does not make them a Different Unit Type. These new Titled Upgrades are just another way GW gives us a stat upgrade option, just like equipment. It is even listed under Options, like equipment. When these new titled upgrades are mutually exclusive, a rule says so, just like equipment upgrades.

In fact, if titles alone made them Different Unit Types, why bother saying ‘one or the other’? It would be self evident. The fact that they need to spell it out, just like Equipment Upgrades, implies that Titled Upgrade should be treated the same.

The poor Elves have sorely missed out in the new stat creep. Wood Elf upgrades are the only new stat chances this army gets. For whatever reason (inconsistancy, neglect or maybe to give them a break), the Creators did not make a rule against giving them both stat upgrades—so why should we?

Let the poor Wood Elf Warriors get both upgrades if a player wants to pay the points, until there is a rule that says he can't.

What do you think?
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 Post subject: Re: Wood Elf upgrades SBG
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:28 am 
Craftsman
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i was thinking this myself, but im not sure.
1- in the new rulebooks after it says about upgrading it will then name the unit E.g x unit for Y points can become Z unit. Z unit has upgrade:.
it deffinatly says that they have a name change and then says what the rule change is, so i would argue that once they are mirkwood guard they are no longer wood elves as it says that that name "mirkwood guard" and then says the stat change"
2- in the latest white dwarf, the uruk player in atofg changed the names of his marauders in his army list, which i think suggests that you do change the unit name.
however ther is nothing in the faq section and ther is nothing in the rulebook that makes it clear, so i would just ask opponents if they don't mind you using both, but i think it does kind of ruin the whole point, as these give character to warbands and this would make 2 loads of elves from different places the same :(
i think it is really up to you and whoever you play with till gw says anything official or someone on his forum come up with a diffinanitive answer.
hope this helped although im not actually sure i answered your questions... :?

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 Post subject: Re: Wood Elf upgrades SBG
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:09 am 
Loremaster
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No, you can't combine as they are upgrades for two different factions. One is for Gildors troops from the west and the other is over the other side of the country in Mirkwood.
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 Post subject: Re: Wood Elf upgrades SBG
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:18 am 
Craftsman
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gildor is stupid really as he is not even in the same faction as the people who he can upgrade!

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 Post subject: Re: Wood Elf upgrades SBG
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:29 pm 
Craftsman
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Granted that Gildor's location and placing in the army lists is not the most convenient, but between him and Thranduil one can create one of the most maneuverable and most accurate shooting forces in the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Wood Elf upgrades SBG
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:00 pm 
Kinsman
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hithero wrote:
No, you can't combine as they are upgrades for two different factions. One is for Gildors troops from the west and the other is over the other side of the country in Mirkwood.


If the Creators intended this, they would have put Wood Elves into the Rivendale army list. That would have been great. As it is, wood elves come from Lothlorian and Mirkwood; so Noldorian 'cousins' can be recruited into Thranduil's Mirkwood Guard. Maybe the reason Gildor has to come from another army is yet another cost if you want Super Wood Elves, just like the cost added to making a Grey Company that makes is nearly not worth it... These game balancing little hoops we have to jump through seem to override theme concerns for the Creators. Just guessing.
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