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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:25 pm 
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GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Nice work Telchar 8)

If you'll let me (and I remember what's left), may I evaluate another faction?


Let you? I'm begging you!

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:10 pm 
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Okay dokey, I will do a faction tomorrow then (or a the very least start a faction)

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:29 pm 
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The last part of Rohan:

Éowyn, Shield-maiden of Rohan: Éowyn is dirt-cheap, and you get what you pay for. F5, R2, and the horrible By My Hand Shall You Fall (you roll 2 dice in a HD, but die if you don't kill the other chap), she still has a high courage, and 2 might, together with Epic Challenge. My advice would be to use her as a captain of sorts - giving a unit the opportunity to ATD! and use heroic actions, but not doing anything flashy. There is just one problem here - Erkenbrand is far better at this for the same cost, and Deorwinë is 25 points cheaper. Mark: 5.5

Eorl the Young: 3 good Epics, Inspiring Leader, Hero of Legend (1/2 chance of regaining might), high Resilience, courage and might values, all for just 135 points. Eorl is undercosted quite a bit, and by far the best "mighty hero" (big lynchpin for your army type) Rohan has. Use him the same as most others - put him in your main hammer unit, line them up to something big (The Flank! Always attack the Flank!!!) charge, call Heroic Fight (or an ES duel) and kill. Mark: 8

Erkenbrand: This lad is a copy of Eowyn, except he trades a point of Courage for a point of Might, auto-passing terror (Bold Beyond Belief), a better Epic (Charge instead of Challenge) and he does not die if he botches a duel (The Red Shield doesn't kill you when you don't kill the enemy). The best trade in the universe. Beyond that, they are copies of one another, so use them the same. Mark: 7

Théodred, Prince of Rohan: For the same points as his father, Theodred has better epics, but 2 less courage, and he misses the Inspiring leader, Heroic Example and King of the Rohirrim rules, trading Touched by Destiny for Hero of Legend (I'm undecided on which one is better, TbD is narrower then HoL, but works all the time instead of being a dice off). This means he fills an entirely different role. Where Theoden is mainly about upping the abilities of your troops, Theodred is more of a duelist (though he also has the very handy Epic Defense, very good for toughening up Oathsworn militia) due to Epic Intervention, allowing him to call any epic used within 12" of him. Mark: 6,5

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:08 pm 
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I promise to start Angmar tomorrow evening, no matter what the time. 8)

Nice Rohan review too, I pretty much agree with you, though I think Theodred should be 7 or 7.5

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:02 pm 
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Great!

Why do you think Erkenbrand should be better?

EDIT: D'oh. I meant Theodred.

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Last edited by Telchar on Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:17 pm 
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I don't believe I mentioned Erkenbrand, I think you have the right of him, with in a .5 grading. I mentioned Theodred, and its because of his Epic Intervention, which I think good.

In the land of Angmar...

Ghostly Legion: well you may have noticed that they are identical to Army of the Dead, and thats pretty much exactlywhat you get, although Ghosts should be considered better purely because of what compliments them in the list: the Ringwraiths. Their stats are pretty much average, basically Warriors of Rohan with elf courage, which is a fine stat for horde troops, but worth a 1/3 of the actuall price without taking into account special rules. We stand alone is a penalty not a bonus, which greatly reduces them, forcing you to take a captain or dawdle accross the board. Terror and the 2 spirit rules though are useful. Terror has the usual efects, helped along by the Tainted, who increases their chance of working. Spirot Grasp is also useful an, unless against elves, makes up for their average strength, as they can wound qute easily so long as their are no high courage heroes. Spirit Walk is one of the best rules out there - like fly you can swoop through them and attack them from behind, though their movement does hamper this. Heroes increase their movement but increase the fragility. Ghosts are a glass hammer though as their defence is so low that, against 95% of opponants they will struggle to earn near their pts value. For this, I rate them a 4.

Ghostly Riders: Everything of the above, with the addition of being cavalry. This a) makes them vastly more fragile, as it takes even fewer hits to destroy them and waste the excessive pts you spent on them. However this also b) means that they strike before infantry, and with careful use of their high movement, spirit walk, and courage sapping heroes mean that these guys are much more likely to earn their pts back, though they have to be used even more carefully, their Captains are also even more fragile, as their death can result in 2 out of 3 companies being killed. I rate Ghostly Riders at 6.5, possibly a 7 in the hands of a veteran.

Spectral Host: Again, lets compare these to Ghosts, they cost a whole 20pts more and yet have even worse stats. including defence, which is the most important characteristic invloved in troop selection. They also keep their same spirity rule althogh there are two thing which are intenende to make op the 30 pts more they cost (including 10 for loss of defence and fight). They get 15pts to lose We Stand Alone, which may not sound that much better, but I believe it the main reason to take them. Pop a powerfu Epic Hero in there, AtD into the rear of an enemy and decimate. Or if the Hero is a Wraith or other caster, you may wish to do the hide-retreat. You place the Spectres behind a shield of cheaper in pts, and robably higher defence too troops, and leave the shield in place. Use spirit walk to hp the spectres over, cast spells, and hop back with AtD. But don't use it all the time or it'll be predictable. The other 15pts are spent on Sap Strength, which ig used properly can make up for their rediulously low defence. I rate these guys a 6.

Carn Dum Warband: It has been said that these guys are the crown jewel in the Angmar troop selection, good enough to make up for most of the bad, and keep Angmar relatively competitive. Despite costing half the pts of ghosts/ghost riders, they are effectwise, rroughly as good. These guys aren't too cheap though, their allies arre too costly. Their dfence is slightly lower than WoMT and Morannons, but the same as Blackshields. Agains Strength 3, this makes no matter, but against 4, it can make all the difference. Their fight value is slighly above average, but that counts for little as does the courage if you have a Wraith, which you should, as I will say so. The best thing about the Barbarians is that they are Beserk. As long as they charge they are 2/3 times will be strength 5, and 1/6 times Strength 7, reducing your D6 roll required to hit your foe by 1 per +2 bonus. Therea re however two main reason why a Wraith (and another Mightish hero) are important for these. In order to make sure they charge, and so they don't kill themselves whilst remaining their base strength. A pt of might can help both of these, and so can Terror with the former. I rate these guys 8.5 out of 10.

Angmar Orc Warband: So to conclude part 1 of "Angmar: an Evaluation", we will finsh on the bost basic troops in the game. They appear in Mordor and Isengard too, and tehy do pretty much exactly the sam ething they do in those as in Angmar, so I will not waffle on too much. As usual, shields are not too useful on them - unless you intend on using them purely as a spirit screen, and have no other purpose, otherwise - all you need them for is cheap bows, and two=handed weapon blocks. These will be rated 7, as they are quite useful.

Look out for Part 2...









(Or don't, I'm not forcing you)

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Totally agree on nearly everything, though perhaps (I've never seen them in action, except in Xelee's batreps) Barbarians should be a bit lower (8). They still have a rather low defense for your core troop...

Also, if you waste that Wraith's only might on saving a few casualties, you just painted "DUEL ME" real big over his chest.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:40 pm 
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looking out for part 2!
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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:24 pm 
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@Telchar, I've used Barbarians misself, but 8 might be better, I just really like them. The Wraith less so for that, unless you're actually using the W-K, I meant about sticking in cheap allied heroes for that like Thrydan and Durburz.

@Lays, thank you

Part 2 up later tonight.



And something else I remembered.

EDIT: too late today, sorry. Have to hope I'm not too bust tomoz.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Have you remembered Gothmog?

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:24 am 
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Sorry :( If I haven't done it by tomorrow evening, send me a PM. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:34 pm 
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No problem, Gothmog, I don't mean to hound you (but I will anyway :-D ) (there should be an "evil grin" smiley)

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:36 am 
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Telchar wrote:
No problem, Gothmog, I don't mean to hound you (but I will anyway :-D ) (there should be an "evil grin" smiley)

Its this: :twisted:


Anyway, Angmar Part 2...

(now where was I up to...) :oops:


Oh yes...

Court of Fallen Kings: To start off part two, I will begin with an elite formation that could be very good, or very bad, (though not nearly as bad as their alternative see below). Barrow-wights are similar to Beserkers and Half Trolls, being resistance 2, Indomitable units. They don't go beserk of course, but they do have Spirit walk, so as long as you can neutralise high courage heroes you should do reasinably well. They also have a more decent defence, and can take as many hits as 2.5 coys of Morannons. Their biggest problem though (apart from high cost) as that these guys are just too slow to creep up behind, and have WSA but with no hero options, so you will need to be absolutely perfect with deployment and unit trapping. Their greatest strength however is Paralysing Touch, makinng cavalry, monsters and super legendary formations easier to kill. Expect them to do well against the 3 Hunters in particilar. This strength however, is rendered almost useful by the fact that the very units the Wights are best at killing, are the hardest things to catch, cavalry in particular is far too fast for them. Thus, I render them a 6, or 6.5. They're decent, but you have to be a good a generalm as Tywin Lannister and Stannis Baratheon combined to earn their pts value back.

Shade: Though not as effective in WotR as it is in SBG, Shades can be pretty useful, thogha gain they have to be used well. they're dreadful in a fight and easy to shoot down so they desperately need protecting. they also move very slowly so you need all your skill (or Gothmog {also could be used for CoFK) to Heroic Move them. Then there is the fact that they knock your own fight value down as well as your enemies, so keep all Monsters and ES heroes away. Non ES heroes however, like Druzhag, a common ally of Angmar, who used to be in the SBG Angmar list, could benefit greatly from a Shade, as the Spirit can protect the Hero from duels whilst the Hero's formation protects the Shade from attack, also very useful when fighting Elves, as the high cost they pay for their high fight value is rendered next to useless with 1 or 2 Shades protecting key areas of the battlefield. I rate these Shades as 6.5.

Werewolf Pack: Though the very name is enough to get me excited, I have only ever once been mad enough to field them. These awesome furry beasts are, quite sadly, dreadful. An incredibly high cost for a really fragile low defence unit whose hitting power, though great, is not enough to save them. If they had been beserk, on top of what they have, and could go up to 3 coys and have heroes, they would be worth it, but alas, one must learn not to dream. A very pretty unit, but hardly more useful than nipples on a breastplate (armour). I rate these guys a 2.5

Buhrdur: The best thing since sliced bread. him, the cheaper Wraiths and Barbarians, are really the only things that make Angmar competitive (that does not mean you have to use 'em, nor that you shouldn't use anything else). For the same pts as an overpowered Wraith you get a Troll, who is also a little undercosted. he has everything a decent monster needs. A lot of speed, plenty of Might, VH2K rather than measly H2K, and some good hitting power. Then he also has Epic Actions and Ambusher, meaning he can pop up where you most need him, move him into position and take out key heroes and units (for eg Balistas / Siege Bows, Wizards / Galadriel). He is not however invinceable, and being a monster, he still needs protection or he will die before you can use him. I give him an 8.5

Gulavhar, the Terror of Arnor: Gully is similar to Burdhur, only he costs much more. He hits harder than Buhrdur, and moves faster, as well as being more capable of attacking enemies in the rear. Unfortunately, he is even more fragile (though still VH2K, his defence is so measley), and lacks Ambushing, as well as having to work harder to earn his cost. Though if used well, he can destroy over 300pts of troops. His free Heroic Fights are probably the best thing about him, as it allows him to take out twice asmany enemies in a single turn, though if used at the wrong times, can end up killing him faster. He is best employed taking out small formations of shieldmenin the rear, or archers, if they are decent ones. Pretty much always go second, when fielding Gulavhar, just like with Spectres. You must of course be extremely weary of archers and crossbowmen. I rate him a farly generous 7

Ringwraiths: see Mordor.

And thats the end of Angmar, well not in that way of course :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:15 am 
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Hahah it took you a while but it was worth it, good advice, nicely done tnx!!
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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:38 pm 
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You've read too much ASIOAF of late :-D .

But I totally agree with your assesment.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:32 pm 
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Telchar do you think Rohan becomes competitive if we use Xelee's houserule (all Rohirim count as having lances)?

Thanks a lot for the reviews :-D
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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:32 pm 
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I'm not sure, never having played Rohan. I think they might very well work, as they get quite a lot of hitting power, but to get them into proper charging positions would still require quite a talented player.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:17 pm 
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Sorry for reviving a very old thread, but Telchar, will you ever do gondor?
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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:08 pm 
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I might, I might.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:03 am 
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Telchar wrote:
I might, I might.

Yay. Thank you :D
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