Bow limits for army's

Bronf · **Joined:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:40 pm **Posts:** 297

im still confused about bow limits on types of army's i play a moria army and it just seems a bit op when i fight a rohan or ranger of gondor army that my opponent says they can have full bow army's that means they can just run around my army i cant do anything after 4 turns and more then half my army is dead so the 33% doesn't apply to them at all? seems really unfair

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:41 pm

Rangers if gondor can't have 100% bow limit.

Bronf · **Joined:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:40 pm **Posts:** 297

but what about the other army's? that's what i'm fully asking

whafrog · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:48 pm

Neither can have 100% bows. Gondor is at 33% entirely. It's only Riders of Rohan that don't count towards the bow limit. If there are any other Rohan troops (Warriors, Outriders, Royal Guard, etc), they count normally in a 33% bow limit.

edit: the only army that can be 100% bow is an all mounted RoR contingent, an all mounted Rivendell cavalry contingent, or Grey Company. But with Grey Company you have to take 1 Ranger of the North for every 4 Rangers of Arnor, in addition to a hero to lead the Rangers of Arnor warband.

Sounds like your opponent is trying to pull a fast one...

Bronf · **Joined:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:40 pm **Posts:** 297

my opponents are the ror and the gray company -_- seems unfair that they can have full bows that my goblins will be 2/3 dead befor they can get into melee loojs like i have to avoide fighting then at all costs

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:25 pm

The Grey Company was introduced as allowed to have 100% bows and it's pretty much a consensus that anyone playing that force fully and just hanging back shooting may be playing legal, but not fun. It's obviously not fun for the target player but I have to imagine, after a game or two it's probably not fun for the Grey Company either. If they ally in some other forces (AotD, Fiefs, Gondor Knights, etc.) it would still give them some good shooting but make things more balanced and fun. If they insist on playing it there's not much you can do than let them know it's just no fun.

With the rules update it may a little better because loss of volley fire and the -1 if they move will make them a little less effective, but only if you can take advantage of it. A couple Cave Trolls (with the new monster rules) and some Warg Riders / Wild Wargs / Giant Spiders to close the gap fast. Or a horde of goblins with shields to simply absorb his shooting efforts and press on. Either way terrain is important. If you're playing with huge open spaces to cross you're asking for archery to dominate. Several good sized forest or hill sections will make it more fair as well (not every battle is on the Pelennor Fields).

As for the RoR risk, as discussed in another thread they are still pretty expensive being cavalry so goblins should have a significant number advantage. They have only an average Defense and their horses even less so set up some of your own shooting (don't move and if you can help it!) and try to take a few out now and then. If they move more than half they can't fire at all so you can run them down with Wargs/Spiders or try to corner them in time. And if they move at all they shoot at -1 so won't be hitting very much.

If you post up some typical lists (yours mostly but rough guess opponents if you can remember) it will help us to see if you may have some basic tuning you can do there as well.

Bronf · **Joined:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:40 pm **Posts:** 297

ok then
Moria: 6 warbands of goblins 10 goblins in each warband.6capt with 2 bows 4 with shields..
20 archers 20 spear and 20 sheild
drums and drummers
balrog
1000 pt all up
I play defence using terrain as cover while trying to avoide being shot at.

KhazadAi-menu · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:01 pm

Bronf, I wouldn't take the Balrog, its a huge points sink and can be neutralised quite easily by being fed one model per turn. (This may have changed with the new rules, please correct me if I'm wrong).

I'd go with a Watcher in the Water that you can pop up in the middle of all of his archers and cause him some real mayhem. Take some Warg Riders so you have some cavalry that can get the Knock Down on the charge, then throw in a Troll or two and maybe a Dweller in the Dark.

Plus the Trolls, Dweller and Watcher will be much harder to kill with bow fire.

Hope it helps, I am hoping to use a Grey company, but I'm only going to take 1-2 warbands of them because in my mind it takes away from the game if you just sit and the back and shoot.

ManHell · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:10 pm

whafrog wrote:

Neither can have 100% bows. Gondor is at 33% entirely. It's only Riders of Rohan that don't count towards the bow limit. If there are any other Rohan troops (Warriors, Outriders, Royal Guard, etc), they count normally in a 33% bow limit.

It sounds pretty unfair...
Can I use Ranger of Gondor whitout bows?

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:12 pm

ManHell wrote:

whafrog wrote:

Neither can have 100% bows. Gondor is at 33% entirely. It's only Riders of Rohan that don't count towards the bow limit. If there are any other Rohan troops (Warriors, Outriders, Royal Guard, etc), they count normally in a 33% bow limit.

It sounds pretty unfair...
Can I use Ranger of Gondor whitout bows?

Nope.

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:45 pm

With the new rules the Balrog may actually be pretty effective now but would need to see him played to know. I have a friend that has a very large Moria force (pushing 2000pts in WotR) that would probably like a chance to try him out again in SBG. Except for some scenarios he hardly ever played Durin's Bane in SBG due to the vulnerabilities.

But historically, yeah, the Balrog is not the best choice for a large monster. I think the Watcher or a Dragon would be better if either were available or you could proxy them.

Have you been playing with the new monster rules and the -1 penalty for shooting if moving? I have to guess "yes" since it sounds like he's playing with the new RoR bow limits.

whafrog · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:28 pm

Bronf wrote:

seems unfair that they can have full bows that my goblins will be 2/3 dead befor they can get into melee

That shouldn't happen if they have a properly configured GC, they will have seriously low numbers, and if you use the new scenario deployment rules you should be on top of the pretty quickly. And now if they have to back up their shooting is worse.

whafrog · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:30 pm

ManHell wrote:

Can I use Ranger of Gondor whitout bows?

Why would you want to?

Bronf · **Joined:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:40 pm **Posts:** 297

i don't have the watcher but i do have the dragon (pain to put to gether since it was metal T_T ) but i dono what upgrades to give him (flying i will) but the balrog is so powerful XD

whafrog · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:27 am

Best upgrades for the dragon are probably tough hide and fly. Tough hide make him really hard to wound, which prevents all those annoying Courage tests.

Bronf · **Joined:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:40 pm **Posts:** 297

im just gonna repost this on army help now since its not about rules any more

Bronf · **Joined:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:40 pm **Posts:** 297

recently bought the kingdom of men book and i cant see any rule saying anything they can have their army full bows with riders of rohan. if rohan can do that if would say in a box were they introduce the army so i'm now really am suspicious of rohan players saying they can so please some body point out in written wording that rohan can have full bows.

Coenus Scaldingus · **Joined:** Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:14 am **Posts:** 1121

Check the FAQs: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/conte ... eMode=true

Bronf · **Joined:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:40 pm **Posts:** 297

thats rather silly they should include it in the damn source books. it makes arguments and annoyance's -_- im rather annoyed with this and really want a good damn reason (sorry for sounding angry)

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:33 pm

It is a relatively new ruling, only bought out in the latest FAQ (last year). The sourcebooks were bought out 2/3 years ago.

Bow limits for army's

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