What army were you playing, and at what points was the match?

i was playing dwarves and it was just a game for fun as my friend wanted to start playing, the store owner let him use a balrog and let me use 1 warband and Gandalf.
I apologise as this probably is not a good example of how the new rules have vhanged the game.

Slightly off topic, but are the Goblins really that bad, and have you tried the Scribe?

On topic: sounds like the great Goblin is the new Spider Queen.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Indeed, and as a result i'm guessing thorin and gandalf will suddenly become alot more popular. Although imo anyone with lineage of the firstborn should be able to ignore his blubbery mass rule.

EDIT: Also, does anyone reckon Grinnah's 'swap with me' rule will work with the great goblin?

Indeed, and as a result i'm guessing thorin and gandalf will suddenly become alot more popular.

Why will they suddenly become more popular? Why those two?

Those two will become popular because, since the goblin king will become popular, people will need to have on of the three elven blades. And since Bilbo/Frodo can't really fight, they need Thorin or Gandalf

What makes the goblin king so powerful?

He has access to the new brutal power attack rules (hurl, barge, rend) he has his blubber fate save and he can charge through/ throw goblins if he wishes and he gets +1 to wound aswell.

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Basically, goblin king has almost identical stats to a cave troll, but has some M/W/F, a 3+ save whenever he is wounded, and is a monster that can wield a 2 handed axe without penalty- basically meaning that for his points, he is ridiculously good. I also believe he is resistant to magic if i remember correctly so yeah, he's op.

Only other solutions i can think of to combat the goblin king is floi, but even then, the goblin king is still basically a troll with +1 to wound. Thorin seems like the most logical counter...

The Great Goblin also has less str and def than a cave troll, and is also 40 pts more. He is in no way OP, especially considering how easily his followers die.

On the Balrog, I used him recently against an Isengard army. It was a 1600 pt game and included Goblin Town goblins. In the first turn, he fought an Isengard troll, won and threw it at a line of uruks. He only rolled a 2, but that was still 5in. When the dust settled, the troll and 3 pikemen were dead, in the first turn. The next turn, he barged through another troll and fought Saruman, although Saruman saved all 3 his wounds. Meanwhile, my cave troll barged through some uruks to kill a banner, and the Great Goblin killed a fair amount of uruk-hai (although my opponent shot at him with his crossbows, killing 2 pikemen and 2 berserkers while he was at it, lol).

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"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

First off, i reckon that the 3+ save alone renders him op. Also in most cases, it doesn't matter if he is one less strength, he gets +1 to wound and has might to boost it. If there is a 40pt difference between the two and gg has 6 combined M/W/F, accounting for 30 points of that difference, but then the strength and defence point you mentioned must be taken off, meaning he costs 100pts without his special rules. By this logic GW have added it up so that Burly, Resistance to magic, blubbery mass (which imo is worth 20pts alone), relentless advance, and goblin projectile take up only 20 points, which makes him undercosted. Infact, to be perfectly honest, i really don't think that 'blubbery mass' should be on his profile, maybe just a scenario specific special rule... (however i am glad that i have him and my friends don't).

Perhaps if the weapons he was vulnerable extended to anduril, aeglos, Barasanthubul (Dain's axe), Durins axe, or maybe even everyone with lineage of the firstborn then he wouldn't be op.

Also in regards to your battle with isengard, i think the 'rank and file' type armies, of which isengard is the most prominent, are particularly vulnerable against the new monster rules because of the fact that two of them are designed specifically to break through ranks, and the third is used to ignore armour on the big boys (although i reckon this is more aimed at fools like dain)

These new rules sure sound fun

Just can't afford £50 at the moment

That's a good point, I would support that. However, I don't think that Goblin Projectile or Relentless Advance are worth taking advantage of, so I wouldn't take them into account for his cost (so free useless rules). Burly is only useful when in combination with a 2handed weapon, so I would say that that cost is included with the weapon (so 5pts). Resistance to Magic is usually seen as a free or dirt cheap upgrade (look at Glorfindel), leaving Blubbery Mass. Using my reasoning, Blubbery Mass is 15 points. I would say that that's rather fair.

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"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

15 points for what is essentially infinite fate points AND narya? Glorf's resistance isn't pointless, he's supposed to be the anti-ringwraith character, and being resistant to magic + his terror are the only things that make him potentially worth it over the twins.

I didn't say it was useless, I said look at the only example where a character can take it as an upgrade, which is Glorfindel. He pays 10pts for heavy armor, which is 10pts anyway, and you get RtM literally for free. So, GW obviously counts it between 0-5pts. Gandalf the White/Saruman the White can rather easily take him out. Granted, they are more expensive, but they can get the job done. I'm not saying he's NOT OP, just not as bad as it would at first seem.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

True that brother. With my group, or should i say, the most vocal guy in our group, first impressions mean alot. He's the sort of guy who will moan and whine about how well a certain model is being played, or even the basic rules themselves, then fail to look into how to combat said model/force and pull the same old bs again. Because of this i don't like using op models, they literally ruin the night because of this guy's reaction despite his lacklustre knowledge of the rules.

Maybe he isn't incredibly op, but someone said he was the new spider queen, and i'm afraid i will have to agree (i'm totes gonna make an army with both in now brb)

As wrll as the Great GOblin ( I will not call him by the 'name' Jackson uses), I would also say how good the Cave Drake is, since it is also a monster and thetrefore on topic.

At first, it was considered overpowered but then with Warbands it becames less so after it increased pts due to gaining Shaman ratio of M/W/F. Now however, with brutal power attacks, plus his old cave drake rules, and the possibility of using a new herouc action, I'd say the Drake is possibly back to where it started.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Ahh, but can you afford £37? http://totalwargamer.co.uk/the-hobbit-an-unexpected-journey.html

I wouldn't be concerned at all about something like this under the older LoME army restrictions. The overall Goblin Town force (whatever the list is actually called) doesn't sound bad considering what I've heard about the basic troop type. So even an OP (but expensive) hero like this in such a list isn't that big of a deal. But with SBG reverting to the old "all Evil" and "all Good" ally format it has a higher chance of getting abused. Nothing to stop the Great Goblin from joining up with Fighting Uruk Hai or Morannon Orcs, for example.

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Beowulf

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