Warriors of Dale Rules

WhoelsebutHaldir · **Posted:** Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:46 am

Hirumith, the Grey Knight wrote:

Personally, I'm just as happy that they're fairly "vanilla." I don't see what special rules or equipment (other than maybe a great bow, but they don't need them) warriors of Dale would deserve, and I'd generally prefer that they avoid stat creep.

WhoelsebutHaldir wrote:

That's pretty disappointing, I was hoping that they would actually have a use....but besides fluff I just don't see it, from what you've described.

Eh, IMO fluff should be the reason to include a unit in your armies. Presumably they're not unbalanced, i.e. overpriced or underpowered, they just don't have any special rules or equipment. The basic infantry of most other armies is pretty bland, as well. The main difference is that this is an army that isn't at all expanded on by the story, so we don't get to see anything but the basic infantry. In that regard, they're pretty similar to Numenoreans (or Easterlings, or Moria, or any number of others, before GW added new characters and units). Maybe after the movies they'll add some character models like Girion, or a variant troop type. Until then, though, these seem to pretty much fit the bill as far as what they're supposed to represent.

They do bring something to Erebor armies, it would seem, in the form of light infantry and archers. Too bad they're more expensive than dwarf miniatures, which is a bit ridiculous if part of the purpose of including them is to bolster your numbers with light infantry.

It would be nice if GW would put some of the generic hero profiles, like Kings of Men, into newer lists, though. Then you could at least have a "counts-as" Girion.

I was just hoping that they would be a little more interesting than basic troops, because of their price and how many you get in the box.

Thermo · **Posted:** Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:43 am

Chatted to Knighty about this yesterday and although I've not been in the hobby long enough to have my opinion, kind of agreed with his that new models and units in sbg on the whole haven't been subject to a stat creep, forcing player to "have to buy" the latest models just to stay competitive.

Give erebor a bow option and cheap spear support and as far as I'm concerned, don't have an automatic right to a fab special rule.

Looking forward to Bard though... And REALLY looking forward to Beorn and hopefully some Beornings (although guessing he will be part of woodland realms list)

Anyone know what Beorn looks like in movie??

SuicidalMarsbar · **Joined:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:14 am **Posts:** 1712

I don't agree at all that you need new models to stay competitive, 11 pts for a grimhammer is a joke, hunter orcs on wargs aren't that op, Azog and Bolg are both powerful, but costed fairly (if anything bolg is too expensive imo) - really not very op at all. Fair enough Thorin and the Great Goblin are both pretty powerful but i wouldn't say they are much better than other certain models like Legolas or good Saruman. Uruk Hai were one of the first armies to be released and they are still one of the most powerful releases to this day.

I think it's nice to see some plastic models that are A:Human, B: Fight 4, and C: On the good side.

Fin · **Posted:** Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:02 pm

Thanks a lot for the heads up. :yay:

Rules in the box was the critical point for me. I didn't want to rely on rumors so I waited until now to place my order...

Thermo · **Posted:** Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:29 pm

SuicidalMarsbar wrote:

I don't agree at all that you need new models to stay competitive, 11 pts for a grimhammer is a joke, hunter orcs on wargs aren't that op, Azog and Bolg are both powerful, but costed fairly (if anything bolg is too expensive imo) - really not very op at all. Fair enough Thorin and the Great Goblin are both pretty powerful but i wouldn't say they are much better than other certain models like Legolas or good Saruman. Uruk Hai were one of the first armies to be released and they are still one of the most powerful releases to this day.

I think it's nice to see some plastic models that are A:Human, B: Fight 4, and C: On the good side.

Exactly! That's what Knighty was saying, there HASN'T been a stat creep

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:52 pm

I'm hoping that right around the time their license runs out, they redo all the profiles to be more inline with the books/movies.

whafrog · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:47 am

SuicidalMarsbar wrote:

I think it's nice to see some plastic models that are A:Human, B: Fight 4, and C: On the good side.

Taken out of context, sure. Put back into the context of middle-earth, these profiles just seem arbitrary, like they needed to fill a gap in the profiles that was A:Human, B: Fight 4, and C: On the good side.

rumtap · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:05 am

They are just warriors of Numenor with a funny hat

WhoelsebutHaldir · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:39 am

rumtap wrote:

They are just warriors of Numenor with a funny hat

That is very dissappionting, which is also why I think a special rule is needed. With all the new releases they are going to be needed so profiles are not too similar across the board, I think we are going to see more.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:20 am

They need a special rule and only 3 fight.

SuicidalMarsbar · **Joined:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:14 am **Posts:** 1712

On TLA i pointed out that there was not a huge Garrison of warriors of Dale (in the Hobbit it says that there are only 2 regiments to fight the dragon), i theorized that these models are the 'elites', and we may well see a box of militia to pad out the ranks.

Dr Grant · **Joined:** Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:50 pm **Posts:** 1339

Thermo wrote:

Anyone know what Beorn looks like in movie??

There was a production mock-up of him in bear form in the original scrollable poster before the move to 3 films. He's taller than Gandalf when sanding on his hind legs and looks like a bear :-)

Have a look here:

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Y130zl ... andalf.jpg

One of the production videos (I forget which) also had shots of the inside of his house as well as a brief shot of an external location that could be his home.

As far as I know there've been no leaks/teases of him in human form though.

As for the Warriors of Dale I like the sound of 'em. F4 might seem a bit high but I'm not of the school of thought that every basic troop should have a special rule. If anything the specula rule 'bloat' for the new troops in the Hobbit is a bit of a turn off for me, nothing wrong with basic troops being basic.

I still love the models too, very tempted to pick up a box to paint up even though I've got no intention of collecting a Dale/Erebor army - that's the sign of a good figure in my mind.

Also, I think it's great they're releasing new rules in the box. I bought the hardback rulebook but I really don't mind them adding new troops/heroes to the range via in-box rules, I'd rather that and have great surprises like these figures than have no new releases until December. It also reminds me of getting into the hobby back in 1993 when the Warhammer plastic boxes used to have the rules on the back - good times! :-)

Hirumith, the Grey Knight · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:42 pm

WhoelsebutHaldir wrote:

I was just hoping that they would be a little more interesting than basic troops, because of their price and how many you get in the box.

Ah yeah, I get that. Higher price-per-model often means better stats in game or is applied to elite models, so I can see where that comes from.

SuicidalMarsbar wrote:

hunter orcs on wargs aren't that op, Azog and Bolg are both powerful, but costed fairly (if anything bolg is too expensive imo) - really not very op at all.

To me, stat creep is not the same as overpowered. They seem to generally have a fair point cost, yes, but in the context of existing profiles many of the characters from The Hobbit break trends by being more powerful than the established standards for their race, for no apparent reason. Hunter orcs, Azog, and Bolg all seem more powerful than they should be, considering precedents for orcs in the game so far, even if their point values do accurately reflect how strong their profiles are. The three trolls also seem more powerful than I would have expected, compared to Bhurdur.

With regards to the Dale garrison, I don't really see why they're not F3 instead of F4, but at the same time we know so little about them that it's hard to make a serious case one way or the other. If they had been F4/3+ and S4, or something like that, and had a special rule, then I would have been scratching my head a bit. But just slightly better fighters than most other humans? Well sure, why not?

I am curious, for those that think the Dale garrison needs a special rule, what kind of special rules you might propose? It should be something that actually adds flavor and playability, and has some thematic justification, not just tacked on to make them stand out.

Harfoot · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:02 pm

The problem i see is that GW are "damned if they do, damned if they don't"
I am glad they did'nt!

Jobu · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:34 pm

Harfoot wrote:

The problem i see is that GW are "damned if they do, damned if they don't"
I am glad they did'nt!

I dont know about that, but looking at stats: With a spear and shield they cost the same as a black numenorean and a WoMT with spear and shield. The BNs still have a special rule, higher courage and higher defense, WoMT with spear and shield have higher d and one less f. Maybe the right question is why does evil get the better units. Maybe the dale warriors need a special rule ( which they may get with a named hero at some point) more armor or more courage. Otherwise they are really nothing special by themselves.

Harfoot · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:16 pm

Hoping for a 3 or 4 figure command sets, so far we have had no Banner Bearers for the Hobbit

WhoelsebutHaldir · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:56 pm

Lower their fight by one and (maybe) increase their points cost by one, and give them the following rules(or something along these lines)

How about:
"Dwarvish weaponry:Men of dale may re-roll scores of 1 while trying to wound orcs,Uruk-hai, and goblins"

And

"Men and Dwarves together: if a Man of dale is in a fight that also includes a dwarf, the man of dale may re-roll scores of a 1 and 2 while attempting to wound orcs, Uruk-hai, and goblins"

Draugluin · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:35 pm

@Dr Grant, the reason why I don't like the Warriors of Dale is that they are identical to Numenorians, which means that they are supposedly more skilled than the armies of Gondor, which makes no sense. If they had 3F but 4C, to represent that they aren't constantly being hammered away by Mordor, then they would have both a unique profile and I would actually want some. If these turn out to be the 'elites' of the army, then I'll be ok.

Falkrik · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:56 pm

These guys being better fighters than Gondor infantry is a joke.

Hashut's Blessing · **Joined:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:41 pm **Posts:** 1279

Has anyone considered the F4 is to reflect their mercenary status? they would be skilled in fighting against a far wider plethora fo foes than WoMT for example.

WhoelsebutHaldir: Why would Dwarfs not get those weaponry bonuses? Also re-rolling ones and twos against the most commonly occurring opponents int he game is perhaps a little much, even given the fact it has to be a two-on-one fight involving a Dwarf...

Warriors of Dale Rules

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