I can not see WOTR happening again because of the expense of new customers building an army, the cost would be huge, even more so with half the figures in a box of plastics.

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Harfoots-The first of the Hobbit people to cross over the Misty Mountains and enter Eriador.

The first place to look is usually historical miniatures, depending on the faction you're talking about and the aesthetic you're after. Most human factions are pretty well covered by existing historical miniatures, but the fantasy races are harder to find if you're trying to find something that matches the WETA look.

As to the original question - I doubt that GW will release more LOTR minis unless The Hobbit does remarkably well, and frankly I don't see that happening. In the past I would have guessed that they might do basic infantry in plastic for those factions that were currently missing them (Arnor, Dunland, Khand). Admittedly, none of those are currently terribly popular factions, but I think that's in large part due to the fact that they're so expensive to collect on account of the miniatures being metal or finecast. Looking at Easterlings, Dwarves, Wood Elves or Galadhrim, or even orcs as parallels, how often did you see full armies of them fielded in the early days, when they also only had metal miniatures? However, with the near-100% price increase on plastic miniatures, I doubt plastic infantry sets of those models would do very well, so I doubt GW will make them.

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

Thing being, of course, that there has been a "LOTR gaming hobby" since about 1974, and probably earlier. One time, it was even GW making figures for the LOTR gaming hobby. Some of said figures ended up repurposed into early Warhammer.

So, yeah that bit of the hobby will keep going.

The key issue for all these nerd hobbies is that they tend to age really quickly. The age profile for Dungeons&Dragons and historical wargaming and whatnot is heading north of 40.

GW's appeal, or utility, is that their age profile is really low. In other words they were creating new gamers. It meant that some (small) percentage of teenagers buying The Fellowship of the Ring boxed set in 2001 with their Christmas money would be playing lots of miniatures games in 2013. Generally, the more people playing a hobby game, the better. Means you can play different ways, choose groups who play the way you do, and have less weirdo beardy guys with freakish eyes. (That latter, is, alas, a problem. )

So if LOTR goes away tomorrow, people will still be playing. They may not be using the SBG rules, but they'll be playing. The issue is really there'll be less playing and the community playing will become smaller, more focussed and more fragmented.

Not the end of the world, but makes life harder when you think "man, I'd love to go and play some LOTR" and realise the nearest player is an hour away, and likes to rant about the Jewish world domination conspiracy :p

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Dreaming of getting back to painting...any month now.

I very much agree with aelfwine (always love reading your posts btw). The "Lord of the Rings wargaming hobby" won't just die after GW has ceased support--but the community will become smaller and more fragmented.

What I'm interested to know from you all is, when that point comes, do you plan to continue with LotR/Hobbit anyway? Will you switch to a different GW game? Will you dive into historical gaming/modelling? What are you planning to do?

I'm ceasing starting new armies for LOTR SBG and Warhammer 40K. I would love to start more, some Iron Hills or Blue Mountain Dwarves, Tau Empire and Thousand Sons Chaos Space Marines for 40K. But the combination of extortionate prices, declining quality ("Fine"cast), poor support and coverage for games (lack of LOTR content in White Dwarf and its overall declining quality) and lack of opponents (SBG) means I have to decide enough is enough.

At best, I'm buying things off Ebay to plug holes in my existing armies. The last big purchase I made from GW was the plastic Mines of Moria fellowship a couple months ago, but only because I've wanted it for years. I barely bought anything in 2012 (Duinhir, and two blisters of Hobbit archers IIRC, all metal and relatively cheap).

I'm slowly working on a historical Anglo Saxon army (Gripping Beast, Musketeer Miniatures and Wargames Factory) which I will also use/proxy as Rohan (or use houserules based on the ancient pre-Rohan Kingdom of Rhovanion).

My aim with this army is to make it as versatile and multi-purpose as possible. I intend to use it to play SBG, Gripping Beast's Dark Age skirmish game "SAGA", the free Dark Age skirmish ruleset Age of Blood; in the event I ever want to play larger scale games I'll scratch build some movement trays.

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My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/

I'll admit that I don't like historical miniatures being proxied for Lord of the Rings--why not just actually play historical wargames? But tripling Anglo-Saxons for use in SBG, SAGA and Age of Blood seems like a good and practical idea.

Because Anglo Saxon miniatures fit well with my interpretation of how Tolkien describes the Rohirrim in his books.

Even in the movies, they act and sound like Anglo Saxons, and use similar armour (lots of chainmail and leather) and weapons (swords, axes, bows, throwing spears), and their military doctrine is clearly based on Anglo Saxons (shield wall). The Rohirrim are basically an imaginary evolution of Anglo Saxon culture and military doctrine, had they adopted the widespread use of horses as cavalry.

Take this model for instance...(image is off the internet, not my model).

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My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/

No, I agree that Anglo-Saxons are visually similar to Rohirrim and were the inspiration for them. I'm just saying that if you're at the point of using historical miniatures instead of GW's LotR models, you might as well switch to historical gaming as well and cut all ties. It seems the primary motivation of this LotR hobby is to visually recreate Jackson's Middle-earth through miniature battle, not to play the actual wargame of the Strategy Battle Game. Ie, it's the universe and movie visuals that are the appeal. Proxying models from historical ranges, while similar looking, doesn't make sense in light of that--there are so many good historical games to play with Anglo Saxons, for example. There's no need to pretend to be Rohan.

I'm not being hypocritical; I've all but moved on to historical gaming under my own logic. I started looking for historical proxies, then thought--why not just go historical? Is the SBG, or WotR, the ultimate end-all wargame? Is Middle-earth really so much more compelling than actual history? For me, the answer was no, though I understand not everyone would come to that conclusion.

But collecting that one army to allow you to play multiple games seems very practical . I would also recommend checking out Dux Bellorum and maybe adding it to your list.

I already have Dux Bellorum, downloaded it on a whim using my Kindle Fire. Havn't played it yet though.

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My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/

It's not hypocritical at all if the miniatures are close in appearance and theme. We can get third party items that more closely mirror the filmverse Gondorian fiefdoms for instance then Gw's interpretation. I like the sbg, and I like to expand my collection non traditionally at times.

To the post, I don't separate the two ie. the High Elf cavalry, new eagles etc.

The Gw guys I have talked to have heard Gw is done with lots/hobbit after 2017 & are pursuing the rights to Game of Thrones.

straying slightly off topic here chaps.

Cant see them going after GoT. by the time they drop the hobbit, GoT will be really old and hardly anyone will know what it is. Not to mention someone already has the rights to make GoT minis.

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12th GBHL 2013.
13th GBHL 2014
9th GBHL 2015


Mid Sussex Wargamers

*raises hand*

Boy, I wish I read the books before watching the movie.

I was a “movie first – books later” fan so everything is (unfortunately?) centered around Jackson’s visuals.

Heck, my favorite thing about the hobby is gaming and I think 80% of that is just being able to witness Jackson’s Middle Earth on the kitchen table (and there’s nothing wrong with that I hope).

I kind of envy those that can easily swap table top games.

Everything else is just so ... non-Middle-Earthy in my eyes

Boy, the things I would do to see some variant 2 plastic warrior box-sets in the near future. One can dream!

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“There's a savage beast in every man, and when you hand that man a sword or spear and send him forth to war, the beast stirs.”

@Quendil, just out of curiosity, if you don't feel bound to Jackson and GW's visuals, do you still feel tied to GW's LotR rules? If so, why?

On topic:

I would like to see plastic Warriors of Arnor, and some more troop options for the Arnor list. e.g. Cavalry - mounted knights of Arnor, mounted Scouts (rangers?), some upgrade options... (Royal Guard - gain Bodyguard rule and count King Arvedui as a banner; Ranger veterans - ignore woods and ruins themed difficult terrain to move without penalty).

Off Topic:

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My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/

Just out of curiousity who is GW paying rights to? Is it Peter Jackson's team or the tolkien estate or both even?

The reason i ask is because when GW brought out models of characters that weren't in the film would they still have to pay to New line or whoever it is that owns the films?

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"They're taking the Hobbits to Isengard-gard-gard-g-gard"

GW, and other license holders, are paying fees to:

- The Saul Zaentz Company doing-business-as "Middle-earth Enterprises". MEE holds the rights to the text of LOTR, the text of the Hobbit and the texts of Appendix A and B of LOTR.
- If you want film imagery, you're also paying fees to Warner Brothers/New Line cinema for the likenesses.
- If you want anything else, you are paying fees to the JRR Tolkien Estate, who own the rights to the rest of the appendices and various other book elements. They own the rights to the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales too, but you're not getting those, so settle down.

Zaentz is a mildly terrifying Hollywood IP farm. Warners is pretty aggressive in ensuring it gets its moneys worth from its license holders. The Estate is keenly aware that if they give an inch, Zaentz will take a mile. They all have to talk to each other, grumpily, but its not exactly all sunshine and lollipops.

I do believe that you can go to Warners and pay them in one shot, and they'll share your payment with Zaentz, though. Nothing if not convenient. :p

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Dreaming of getting back to painting...any month now.

I'm by no means sure of the legal wrangling that led to this but you can see it in action in the Scouring of the Shire models. The 4 mounted Hobbits all look very different to their other sculpts and Sharky and Worm both have their faces obscured as GW couldn't use the actor's likenesses.

I don't know whether that was a decision on GW's part to not have to pay the fees or a stipulation from the license holder that GW couldn't use actor's likenesses for non-film scenes but it's interesting none-the-less

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Finished 2nd in the 2014 GBHL. My Wife's so proud

Free SBG fanzine: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29569

@Quendil, good; sounds interesting. Major props to you.

I also couldn't figure out if the noticeable drop in actors' likenesses was due to some licensing issue or just a decrease in sculpting quality. However, there are several models from the range that were released after the film period that bare a strong resemblance to the actors...so I don't know.

As to acquiring a new range after LotR...I know Knight Models has a license, but would Star Wars be a possibility, to coincide with the new films?

@Jamros, personally, the wizards of the coast star wars game is a PERFECT tabletop representation of the star wars universe, i recommend it if you haven't given it a go yey

I'm actually not interested in Star Wars miniatures or wargames myself; I was just speculating on what GW could do when it's dropped LotR and the Hobbit.