Hey everyone, as I painted my MOM Gimli I decided to make him standing on a rock giving him a very striking pose imo (though he is still not finished) .
However afterwards I realized that by doing so it has caused some problems....
So here is my question- When trying to hide behind a stone wall (as in the picture) should I ignore the base and just use the models normal height, because in real life he wouldn't drag the boulder around with him. For instance Gimli and goblins normally can use the stone wall as cover to prevent enemies from shooting at them (the warrior of Rohan cannot unless he lays down), but since I added the rock to Gimli's base he is visible to enemy archers.

Also would I use his elevated Line Of Sight when targeting enemies. I ask this because imo someone could easily elevate every archer in his army and therefore legally fire at enemies in front of allies because their allies are no longer blocking their LOS.

Sorry if that was confusing..... hopefully the pics will help explain my first question

The goblin is beneath the arrow

Gimli is standing exactly where the goblin was but is now visible to enemy archers and spellcasters

You could elevate every archer, and then every enemy archer could return fire more easily. The game is WYSIWYG for a simple reason: simplicity The minute you break WYSIWYG the game bogs down, not to mention tensions rise.

Yes, having your warriors elevated has advantages, and disadvantages, so it's normally wysiwyg.

I'd also like to point out the gimli and the warrior of rohan would get an ITW roll for the wall. You just have to be partially concealed.

Alright thanks for clearing that up

I am now thinking twice about mounting on rocks!

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I think a drug habbit would be cheaper...

On the two tournaments I've played in my life the rule was: always look like the model is not standing on a elevated base.

If you don't do this some people could just put their models on very thin bases.

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MEMM I: 4th (Mordor+Harad) MEMM II: 4th (Galadhrim) MEMM III: 2nd (Thorin's Company)

There are miniatures that are standing on rocks (Minas Tirith captain for example). If you follow the rule on WYSIWYG he is at a disadvantage.

Like Denizen said, it makes more sense to pretend they are not on a elevated base.
I could put all my archers on elevated bases so they can shoot over our own men.

...But then your opponent doesn't need to roll ITW's on your men to shoot at your archers. Like I said, advantages and disadvantages.

I'm not a fan of WYSIWYG because I prefer more realism. And as you said in your earlier post Gimli is not dragging the boulder with him. My advice is you just have a minimum terrain height for Gimli to be able to hide behind without counting as being visible. However if you do this don't do the whole squirrelly higher bases for your archers junk, that kind of thing I just hate. It abuses the game because of the physical limitations of table-top war gaming and rule "loop holes"

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Why does that make more sense than this:



If you're not dragging around the rock, then why and how are you benefiting from it? Somebody wants their cake and to eat it too...

Ah contradictio in terminis.
I meant that some miniatures are forced to stand on an elevated position,
they are at a disadvantage.
You don't have a choice for those miniatures.

If I would put my archers on elevated bases it doesn't make sense to ignore the fact that they are standing on rocks. It would only make the game more difficult. (And I was sarcastic)

Personally I think they should not stand on top anything (base wise), it adds to the tactical challenge to get the high ground instead of carrying a rock with you.

Does this makes more sense?

If two players pay the same points for the same unit entry I want those two models to work the same way in game.

If my Legolas is kneeling and yours is on a great big rock they don't play the same with WYSIWYG. Maybe I'm better off because mine has an easier time finding cover, maybe yours is better off because he has better lines of sight. I don't really care which one is better off, it bothers me that we've changed how the model plays without any rules authorization to do so. We've paid the same points for the same model, it should behave the same way.

The general principle that modeling choices shouldn't affect game rules is reflected in the FAQ that says I can't model spare axes, hammers, and so on onto my troopers to give them more hand weapon options.

Measuring to an imaginary point a standard model's hight above the base is easy and it makes sure people are free to do neat conversions (which we want to encourage) without giving any incentive to "model for advantage" or frustrate opponents who would prefer you use a "normal" model (which we want to avoid).

That's my preferred position, but I think gamers are pretty evenly split between it and "WYSIWYG, advantages and disadvantages and all, don't be a jerk about it and model for advantage". If you're with friends hash out what they prefer, if you're at a venue (tournament, game store, whatever) ask the host for a house rule.

But you don't need houserules if you follow the actual ruling which is always WYSIWYG

[discarding only the completely absurd - the rock is not completely absurd, one assumes there are many rocks on the battlefield, and the warrior insists on climbing them all.]

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Well, if a miniature consists of a model and a base (the amount of space needed around the model), then when you place legolas on a big rock you are altering the model, not the base. Now that rock can be used as a point of reference for LOS on that miniature.

Take groblog for instance, the pillar he is on is part of the miniature and can not be used to garner an in the way roll but can be used to get LOS on the model.

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richmondwarmancers we play Lord of The Rings, Battlefleet Gothic, Infinity, some board games, and really whatever tickles our fancy..

That's not the point. The point is that, whilst he is standing on a pillar, if he tries to hide behind a wall, the wall whilst tall enough to completely obscure a Moria Goblin Warrior, does not even partially obscure him.

But that is what the rules say, and that is what should be done.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.