Nazgul at Dagorlad/ Barad Dur?

Papa Hoth · **Posted:** Tue May 21, 2013 6:30 am

Can anyone tell me if Tolkien ever wrote of the Nazguls' role in the Battle of Dagorlad or the siege of Barad Dur?
The 'Tale of Years' tells us that in SA2251 'about this time the Nazgul first appear'. They are not mentioned again until after the fall of Barad Dur...'SA ends. Nazgul go into shadows'.
So, where were they? Particularly at Barad Dur, in Mordor and within coo-ee of Sauron, you would think they would do much damage and rate a mention.

Greg

Dagorlad · **Posted:** Tue May 21, 2013 12:22 pm

There is a hint in one of Tolkien's letters that, at its height, the power and might of Numenor was too great for the Ringwraiths to face.

Letter 131 To Milton Waldman (late 1951)

JRR Tolkien wrote:

... This phase ended and the last began with the ascent of the throne by the thirteenth king of the line of Elros, Tar-Calion the Golden, the most powerful and proud of all kings. When he learned that Sauron had taken the title of King of Kings and Lord of the World, he resolved to put down the 'pretender'. He goes in strength and majesty to Middle-earth, and so vast is his armament, and so terrible are the Numenoreans in the day of their glory that Sauron's servants will not face them.

From the Letters of JRR Tolkien.

He goes on to mention that the servants of the Ring flee the downfall of their master and endure as 'shadows among the shadows' - a wonderfully evocative phrase! But unfortunately doesn't describe their role in the battles that preceded the fall of Barad Dur.

Papa Hoth · **Posted:** Tue May 21, 2013 12:44 pm

Aha. Thanks for that Dags. Methinks I should track down a copy of JRRT's Letters. I presume it is just the one volume?

cheers
Greg

Dagorlad · **Posted:** Tue May 21, 2013 1:00 pm

Yes, one volume. It's a really interesting read and it covers more than just his Middle-earth saga. He has such an eloquent turn of phrase that comes out so beautifully in his letters.

Cheers Greg. I really must get up to Group North again soon.

Bilbo · **Posted:** Tue May 21, 2013 5:41 pm

I think that they basically slinked off and sulked in a reduced power deprived manner until he started to rise up again. Yes, I have to say that Tolkien knew how to turn a phrase, and often with a prose like rythm.

Grungehog · **Posted:** Tue May 21, 2013 8:12 pm

My father sent a letter to jrrt and received a reply, so one of those letters was to my father

Bilbo · **Posted:** Tue May 21, 2013 10:37 pm

A letter to from JRRT to your father is impressive but does not necessarily mean that it was published in the book, however, if it was that is really something?

Sticky Fingersss · **Joined:** Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:20 am **Posts:** 1776

Quote:

My father sent a letter to jrrt and received a reply, so one of those letters was to my father

Wow, please tell more! How did that come about?

Papa Hoth · **Posted:** Wed May 22, 2013 7:30 am

@ Dags,
It would be great to see you at GN again; perhaps we gould organise a doubles LotR? Say, Tank Dog (Heinz) and I against you and the dwarfy Schulz :-)

@ Grungehog,
that is great! Please, tell us all what's in the letter....I don't suppose JRRT happened to drop a mention of where the Nazgul were at the time of the Barad Dur siege perchance?cheers
Greg

Grungehog · **Posted:** Wed May 22, 2013 10:04 pm

Actually it was about the fourth age, My father asked why jrrt didn't/hadn't write/written another book set in the fourth age.
the answer was (i'm somewhat hazey about this) along the lines of because the trilogy was ended, sauron defeated and the tale ended, sadly I cannot remember the rest, I never read it myself, it's all second hand info to me, My grand parents are in posession of it to my knowledge, it had been valued at £15k though.

Grungehog · **Posted:** Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:58 pm

I just talked to my father about the letter:
he said that in the letter Jrrt expressed disapproval towards the bbc rendition of the hobbit, he also states that he wouldn't ever allow anyone to create films out of his books ever again (we know those wishes weren't respected)

Amarthadan · **Posted:** Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:27 pm

I'm thinking: Pics or it didn't happen.

Bilbo · **Posted:** Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:05 pm

Being involved in the sale of such items, the majority of such objects turn out to be fake, or so unsupported by provenance to be discounted. However in the interest of someone who did have such an item, the last thing I would ever recommend would be to post images of a unique letter on the internet. It would pretty much ruin its impact on the market if it ever came up for public sale.

Nazgul at Dagorlad/ Barad Dur?

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