Hi,
If throwing weapons have no movement penalty do they still suffer from the -1to shoot value if the model moves?

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Veni Vidi Vici

Yes, unfortunately.
It's a bit weird really as it sort of defeats the object of throwing weapons- moving and shooting.

how'd you mean?

If you charge > stop to throw then yes you have the -1 to shoot. If you stand still for the entire move phase then no, you can use your standard shoot value with no penalty.

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The only real advantage of the Thrown Weapon was that you throw it on the charge. In the shoot phase it's just a short range weapon with no other advantage (ok, you don't loose shield ability with it but is that really worth the points and 6" range vs. a dedicate bowman???).

I really think GW should have had an exclusion to the -1 penalty for using a Thrown Weapon on the charge. They are a lot less cumbersome than a bow/crossbow/etc., which you can justify the -1 for. This is, so far, the only "Fail" I have personally found with the updated rules.

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Yep, if you've already maxed your bow limit. There are plenty of reasons to stand and hold, the main one being if you already have a good position. If the enemy wants to engage you, they have to come within your throwing range. When you charge, if you miss, that target can no longer be shot at. If you stand, you can selectively pick your critical targets.

Also, maybe it's because it worked so well "that one time", but nothing beats having a Sentinel bring a Cave Troll within 4" of a line of wood elves with throwing daggers who have not moved



I don't think the movement penalty should have been included at all, because all they did was make the xbow less costly and more effective, relatively speaking.

...Although I suppose it was the only way to make all-bow possibilities like RoR and Rivendell Knights.

Thanks for clearing that up guys.
Seems I did understand it right but it does seem a little odd.
Thanks for quick replies.

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I don't mind in principle, but warg throwing spears are now very expensive for their effectiveness.

Thanks for this thread, helped me understand the rule change quickly and easily.

I must say I am not a fan of the new rules for the Shoot Phase. I feel like in many ways they 'fixed' something that wasn't broken.
It seems tedious to remember if every model has shot or not. Were throwing weapons really that good that they needed to be rebalanced?
As was already stated, I see no reason to take Warg Riders with throwing spears when they'll only hit on a 6 and cannot be used if the Orc dismounts. Additionally, every disadvantage the crossbows took in this game (not firing if the model's moved) have at least in part been added to every model, without adjusting the relative cost of either. This makes artillery pieces far more important as the only models that can shoot farther than 24".
For that reason alone, am I also the only one who misses volley firing?

I am not worried by the rule per se as it makes sense in real terms as remaining stationary should be more accurate, However it does make orc bow fire and spear throwing near useless. I felt that the orc throwing spears were over priced before as they so rarely do any damage, but now are half as likely to hit than they were!

Volley fire with bows has now gone as well. I won't loose any sleep over this one, but it does close the door on a tactic that I used regularly to play.

I never liked volley fire anyway, because it encouraged that boring "long march to the middle" style of play. Warbands improved that, but volley fire kept it alive.

Without the new shooting rule, I doubt we'd see the RoR change in bow limit. But I wish they'd found a different solution.

They should make orc bows etc free in my opinion.

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I don't think that any up grade should be free. I only give Mordor orcs bows if they have already got spears, so they have the option of shooting from behind an orc with a shield etc, usually when I have a few points to spare.

Why didn't I ever think of that. You learn a new tactic every day around these parts

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Did any of you see the way that the horse archers in the riders of Rohan killed so many Uruks by moving and shooting in the film, or how almost every throwing spear hit its target on the charge. I think that throwing weapons and mounted expert riders should be excluded from this -1 rule.

Anyway, if a new rulebook is released for the DOS, e might see a change like this?

As nobody has said it yet:

That special rule was not included in the latest books (Mordor 2012 - sounds like the Olympics : P ), and as the FAQ further clarifies: dismounted Warg Riders can simply continue to use their throwing spears. Not that they are worth the points now, but still!

Also:

I can't fully agree with that, because when not actually aiming through a visor and all that, it takes me just as much time to nock an arrow, pull the string and release while directing it at a specific target, as it would to do the same but in some random direction. I.e.: aiming doesn't add any time. Besides, proper bows used in warfare are way to heavy to actually hold strained for any amount of time.

I couldn't agree more as an Archer Myself, I don't see a difference accuracy wise when I move and shoot to when I simply stand still, logically the movement penalty Is only there to represent loading time for arrows/bolts etc... The reason throwing weapons have no movement penalty is simple, the guy throwing the weapon simply has the weapon to hand anyway.

There simply is NO reason to have a shooting penalty for models which have moved.

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