I understand that when the rule says 'can't move through tree trunks', it means that there has to be enough space between tree trunks for the base to pass between.

Just to clarify: this means that Treebeard can't go through difficult woodland terrain unless his base can fit between tree trunks.

As I have rarely (ever?) seen woodland terrain built with so much space between trees....then Treebeard has to go all the way around most terrain pieces...and a safe place for my orcs would be behind a nice row of trees.
Is that right?

Adam Troke once told me "If there is a tree in the way, there is a tree in the way!". There has to be space for a miniatures base to move through gaps in terrain. This rule has meant that at the tournament that the smaller door way in the Osgiliath ruins is unable to allow the passage of any miniatures at all!

In theory, this rule makes it more realistic. In practice, Treebeard can't walk through woods, and Radagast's sled becomes a liability on any board with normal terrain pieces.

More realistic: if the Woodland Creature special rule was the one exception to base width requirements, so--as in Tolkien--Elves and Ents really could pass through woods as if on open ground.

just a thought.

I think that Radagast is on a base bigger than it needs to be and clearly a ruling is required.

Ironically yes, it seems that if Orcs want to run away from Treebeard, they would have to flee into Fangorn Forest.
(By the way, this might be more ironic than you think, because Treebeard is Fangorn.)

Annoying as it may be, it only makes sense if a creature can only move through areas where it could also stand still (i.e. where it actually fits). Say you allow Treebeard to move between two trees that are only a few cm apart (he couldn't actually fit between them), where he charges an orc. What if this orc then wins the combat (damn those dice!) and Treebeard has to retreat, ending up on a tree.. would he be trapped, since he cannot move back the required distance?
Furthermore, even if the specific piece of scenery allows the actual trees to be removed, it would be strange indeed if that is done to enable Treebeard to move through it, while those same trees do have to be in place for line-of-sight, in the way rolls etc.

I am not against the idea of trolls and monsters trashing scenery to get through, but the idea of tree beard de-foresting wood land is a non starter!

This is one of the many needless arguments caused by a poor choice of words. Some of us have a legalistic mindset others don't. I would not interpret the statement the same way you did. But who is right? The rule doorway passage was covered in the the second addition of the rule book. But pesidence was set aside in the new addition of the rules so a needless argument.
Line of sight and Movement are different.
Difficult terrain and impassable terrain are different.
If the forest is difficult terrain 1/2 movement + in the way test for shooting unless you want them to block LOS The tree trunks don't matter(unless).
If the tree trunks are impassable terrain, then tree beard has to go around as you stated. Make this clear before you start the game.
Line of sight blocked. That should be clear but it is often not. How many times has the tree moved now it blocks line of sight argument been used? Too many times is the answer. Decide at the beginning of the game if the base of the forest blocks line of sight or creates an in the way test.Then no matter where the tree moves to LOS is the same. If the tree trunks are impassable then they don't move.
I am not going to look it up it does not matter any more. The answer to the small door was 1/2 rate move. A model could control the door from the front or back if it could not fit in the space. It will not come up in my games. I build the doors so that bases fit.
Most of the problems with the game can be solved with a bit of common sense unless power gaming is involved.

I also like to make my terrain so that there are places for the models to fit. It is possible for a model to climb a tree. How would that work with you can't fit the base rule? What about climbing rocks? Just say what is impassable at the start of the game.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

Remember Treebeard can jump over the trees!

I like the idea of him doing a bit of leap frogging!

I think with Treebeard the rule doesn't make sense (in this interpretation) as the trees would probably just move out of his way. I'm partial to taking it more along the lines of Shelob or the Spider-queen's rules where no terrain is impassable.
Because technically you could take different colored paper or felt and say "this is wooded terrain and is difficult terrain" when we make terrain 3D it's primarily for aesthetic reasons. I have no problem with removing or moving trees to allow for larger bases to pass through. The rules should be uniform for the area of the terrain and less concerned with exact tree positioning.

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[quote="JamesR"]I think with Treebeard the rule doesn't make sense (in this interpretation) as the trees would probably just move out of his way.

I like this idea and it naturally works!

JamesR you should not be playing a skirmish game.
Clearly if that is how you think you should play a game where LOS, micromovement and theme do not matter.

The terrain is not for aesthetics but a part of the game! In 40k it is area terrain and you could use cardboard boxes and felt sheets but in SBG you can hide behind trees, dance through doorways, fall off cliffs etc

Tree is a tree, some things have to be solid. Note treebeard doesnt move trees "quickly" he herds them as quick as he talks. Otherwise he would be able to move whole woodland terrain with him.

I don't think this is correct. Woodland terrain 1/2 move. Impassable terrain means the base can't be there or has to fit. I am going to find the new book and make sure somthing else has not changed.

No wonder this is a problem. There is no definition of impassable terrain in the current rules at least in the basic rules on movement. So 1/2 move period no rule for base has to fit. This does not seem right. I use a lot of house rules but I did not think Impassable terrain was a house rule
Some one with more experience with the current rules as a judge needs to carrify this

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

This game is a movement game, you theoretically slide your model along its' journey, not move from the start to the end with no regard for the journey. If it cant fit through then it cannot continue the journey that way, same checks along the way for control zones and charges.

I agree with you but please show me where impassable terrain is in the rule book.
You may note that forest Hurons do move in the stories.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

That's a rather aggressive and unfair opening statement.
I've played all types of games(including this one since its initial release) I don't disagree with you on the awesomeness of terrain interaction, my favorite LOTR battle I've ever played had the most important feature end up being a log that about 20 Orcs ended up falling off of and drowning.
What I was referring to is a wooded area that yes is more of an area terrain but it was with the assumption that you have declared the entire area to be "wooded" terrain, more along the lines of what is shown on pg 218 of the hobbit rulebook with the trees mounted on a base

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James I am sorry you think it is aggressive but your comments hardly paint a picture of someone who understand how big removing trees from the game would be.
A common sense line says a tree is a tree, one cannot move it unless one has rules to do so. To argue otherwise is to show a lack of comprehension of the atmosphere around the game we play.

But to satisfy the need for rules I took 1 minute, opened my rulebook and found the rule in the movement section.
A tree is an obstacle (p25)
It is more than half the heigh so must be climbed or jumped or is unscalable (p28) depending on your height

You can have a tree without woodland terrain (tree on a base), you can't have woodland without trees or bushes. Otherwise it is just difficult terrain.

I agree removing terrain (especially stand alone) is huge. Again I was only referring to one specific instance to try and fit the story of LotR while understanding the limitations of table top games. And again only in the rare occurrence of having a "wooded area". I was taking the area aspect from pg 25 when it refers to an "area" of difficult terrain

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Page 25 Shooting reference to in the way. Ok I see the Hobbit
Obstacles are listed on page 19 trees are not on the list. Page 25 of the Hobbit fallen trees are on the list. Obstacles are liener.
Areas of wood are on page 18. Forest are not on the list page 34 of the Hobbit.

page 18. 1/2 move



I try to leave clear gaps. The CD is both an obstacle and an area of difficult terrain. I allow models to cross at 1/2 or try a jump as a house rule. The jump allows more swashbuckling.There is one inch between the tree trunks to prevent rules lawyers from power gaming.

The is unscalable (p28) must be the origin of the base has to fit ruling. It won't matter for my game the base will fit.

another endless argument

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"