Hi,
So we played a game the another night and a few questions came up and I would really appreciate your thoughts.

1) can a flying monster be trapped?
2) what happens if a model is hurled off the board edge? Does he stop or is he considered a casualty?
3) if a prone model wishes to charge a model that causes terror, does he take his terror test before he stands up?

Cheers.

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1 Yes, there's no provision otherwise. Just look at it as they have to swoop low to fight and are cornered then.

2 I'm unsure I'd guess they stop in the same way as command cannot force a model off the board.

3 I'd say they can stand as the standing takes half their available move, then they may move. I've always interpreted it as two seperate actions

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Largely agree with JamesR:

1) Yes. Definitely.

2) They stop at the edge of the board.

3) Trickier and I don't think it comes up enough to have developed a consensus. The confusion comes that in SBG you don't 'declare' a charge but just charge something when you enter it's control zone. If you fail a Terror test you stay where you are, you don't move to just outside the control zone and then stop. Following that logic I think you would stay on the floor if you fail the test. You take the test before you move, if you fail you can't move and standing up is part of your move. Just my opinion though, JamesR's has merit too.

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1) Agreed with JamesR, flying only has an influence on movement: flying models can be charged, hit and trapped like any other.

2) Aside from some scenarios, the board edge is normally 'the end of the world'. Models can't be (forced to) move off it - you may even want to count it as an obstacle then for the purposes of being hurled against it.

3) Models failing their courage test may not move at all, and as standing up is part of the movement, they remain on the ground for that turn. Cowards.

Since you test for terror before you move, you would stay on the ground if you fail.

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Cool, your answers are pretty much what we thought. Personally I struggle with the thought of a flying monster being trapped.



But isn't a move required in order to back away an inch? Just my thoughts, I'm open to discussion.

We played it as them being trapped, not that it made much difference! My eagles were trapped a few times but they are some tough birdies!!

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Yes, I can definitely see where you are coming from, and as the rules stand, the model is required to move an inch, while being allowed to move over models, which doesn't just include the Movement phase. My response was mostly an automated one (I've seen people claim that a flying model cannot be charged, because it's flying!), but until somebody whips up a quote from the rulebook, it may be a bit of a grey area. Maybe I should finally read through that whole thing anyway.. it's been out for a year now, and I still haven't!
Anyway, with their big bases, it may still be difficult to find a safe spot to land at 1" distance though..

And indeed, it is surprising how a pile of feathers and hollow bones are as tough as a dwarven hero in heavy armour!

But it is also suprising it only has 2 attacks and S8.
A normal golden eagle has a strength so strong it can puncture a skull with it's talon.... now scale up.
Golden eagle can kill a Deer in one go... yet a giant eagle cannot kill a warg marauder in one go

In wargames we must accept a level of abstraction. It'd be boring to play out a game with a level of detail which accounts for realistic action- that's what Roleplay games are for, and even they have to abstract to a degree.

When a flying creature is "trapped" I imagine it to be flapping backwards in a disorderly manner, more concerned with avoiding the assault of it's foe than cooly retreating away from danger.

I also don't equate the "toughness" value with physical resilience alone. Yes, in a Dwarf it does represent their thick armour and robust frame. In an eagle, perhaps it represents the difficulty an enemy would have in landing an effective blow against a creature which swoops down swiftly, slashing and beating as it goes.

But I'm a lover of narrative war-games. That's why I like SBG- even the points match battles have cinematic moments, and the heroic actions system really lends itself to narrative play.

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I thought it was pretty clear from the rules that a Flying Monster is rarely in the air. If that was the case, the movement value would be much higher in relation to horses. When a Flying Monster isn't moving it is clearly on the ground, it has to take to the skies in its move, landing on the ground, or in some cases, near to it, when their movement ends.

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Actually that's nonsense, the only documented Golden Eagle attach on a deer was a Golden Eagle killing a young Sika Deer. It was far from instant the deer being practically skinned and dismembered. The Daily Mail featured the following article, which they make out happened much quicker than other sources (as they trade in giving old ladies something to be scared of!). Please do not look if very squeemish!:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -kind.html

Honestly I do not know where you got your "so strong it can puncture a skull with it's talon" from? If that was possible the bird would have done it!

Also (on flying monsters being trapped) we're not talking a VTOL machine here lol, the Eagle at best will have to take a moment to gather itself to launch back up to the sky and "being trapped" would also include the difficulty of accomplishing that while being attacked.

Stats and rules in wargaming rarely take only 1 thing into account, such as Fight Value, its hardly just martial prowess as a Cave Troll certainly does not have greater technique then an Elf warrior, but due to his sheer strength in the event of a tie (imagine blades locking or whatever you wish) he will win.

In the same way being "trapped" doesn't mean your model is literally pressed against a rock, unable to evade, but rather (for whatever reason) a hinderance to a unit's normal defenses

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I like your thoughts on this, makes sense to me!

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Flying models may not only be trapped but are also subject to hitting obstacles when being sorcerous blasted and falling over when they are barged into terrain by a monster. It is only while they make their move they ignore everything else.

I have an aquantance who has a golden eagle who hunts in scotland. That is his job and he has caught smaller deer and foxes. More than once he has had to help the eagle extract it's claw after it passed through the roof of the skull

Further, the psi of a human grip is 25psi.... a golden eagle exerts around 300-400psi and all the links i've found say 250-350psi will crush a human skull.
The reason that eagle didnt crush the deer skull is because there are various hunting methods. Not many of them involve attacking the head of a creature.

And there are more than one documented, just only one has ben photographed like that. There is a difference.
http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9700593/1/

Even wikipedia recognises that Eagles can own larger prey

According to Ask.com, it takes 500psi to crush a human skull. That would obviously be a healthy, full grown human. While it wouldn't be able to crush a human skull, partly because I think the talons would scrape the skull rather than crush it, they are pretty dang strong.

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I thought models of strength 6 or over couldn't be knocked to the ground and are not moved by a sorcerous blast? Do you have some page references I can look at?

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The new rules basically state that if a blasted model bumps into scenery or a S 6 model it stops, there is however nothing stating that a S6 or higher model cannot be sorcerous blasted d6! Which there used tobe quite clearly stated.

Bilbo is correct, any model can be blasted away (save the Mumak) Pg 80 of the large rulebook has the sorcerous blast rules.

I wish they had kept the old rules where the initial target of the blast determined when the flight would stop. The old example was (paraphrased):
if a moria goblin is blasted into the balrog the balrog wont budge, but if the Blarog is blasted into said goblin will be knocked flying.
It used to be if a strength 6+ model was blasted ANY model it hit would be bowled over as well but now the strength of the blasted model doesnt matter for that

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Ah! I was thinking of the old rules. To be honest I hadn't picked up on the change, thanks for that!

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