(SBG) Shield and Banner

belgiumfire · **Posted:** Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:01 pm

After rereading the rules I stumbled across something unclear inside the rulebook.

Is a model able to carry a banner and a shield while still getting the +1D for the shield? I started searching for it in the rulebook but I'm not sure yet. It still doesn't seem logic to me, but if anybody knows if there is any solid proof of this not being possible.

If there is no proof, why not always give a shield to the banner-bearer?

I hope you guys can help me out with this problem.

Gene Parmesan · **Posted:** Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:13 pm

From what I remember a banner bearer cant have a shield. I know I had a Rohan soldier converted years ago and I removed the shield.

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:16 pm

I have been wondering about this for a while. They removed the restriction in the new rules but never clarified what happens the the Def bonus. I would assume it does but only because under the shield rules, the banner isnt listed as a cumbersome object. it only lists 2H weapons, bows, crossbows and pikes.

Coenus Scaldingus · **Joined:** Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:14 am **Posts:** 1121

Aye, nothing stopping you (anymore) to equip a model with both a banner and a shield, getting the benefits of both. The FAQ specifically states that this is indeed possible, and as SD points out above, banners are not among the objects listed as encumbering the use of a shield fully.
Why not use the shields then? Well, a decade of models with banners without shields could be an objection.. although the guys running along with the King's Champion were armed for this edition of the rules apparently. Definitely will get some shields for my banner bearers, but probably won't glue them on - just in case they change their mind again!
Just a shame that Boromir's special rule specifically states that he does not benefit from using a shield (or lance) whan carrying his fancy banner...

Stormcrow · **Joined:** Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:02 am **Posts:** 218

The ruling does make some sense though.
Let's assume one hand is holding the shield and the other holds the banner.
When it comes to a fight the banner becomes the weapon and suffers a -1 on the duel roll so why impose a further penalty to the model.

That's just my take though.

Stormcrow · **Joined:** Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:02 am **Posts:** 218

On second thoughts though what happens if the banner bearer is also moulded with a weapon attached such as a sword?

I have a Rohan banner bearer with a sword in one hand and the banner in the other. If I were to equip him with a shield he would need three hands!

Can he opt to use his sword in a fight instead and negate the -1 penalty? Could he make use of the feint special strike?

Or is he assumed to be using the banner as his weapon as I originally thought?

This is throwing up all kiiiinds of problems!

belgiumfire · **Posted:** Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:56 pm

From what I expect is that you won't be able the special weapon rules if you also have a shield (the three arm problem I guess), but if you don't have a shield I guess you can. Only you get a -1 duel roll cause the banner is slowing you down.
Also it's WYSIWYG, so it depends how your model really looks like. So either a shield or a hand weapon I would guess.

What are other peoples thoughts of it?

Dragon from the East · **Posted:** Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:11 am

Personally from my games and how we have interpreted the rules, we always considered the banner just as much a piece of equipment like say spears. You can wield a spear and shield and use the spear and have the +1 defense. Here with a banner we would say "You can use your banner and have +1 defense for you shield." But when you have a model that has a sword, a shield, and a banner, then you have to pick and choose your equipment. Just like when you have a model armed with a bow and a spear, they pick and choose which piece of equipment they use each turn. So a model armed with a bow would just shoot until his enemy got close, and then use the spear or shield that you payed for in the points to switch out for close combat. I would assume that if you have a guy with a sword, shield, and banner, he could use his banner and shield until he got into a fight, then you decide if you want him to use the banner or the sword that turn. You can use the banner and have the special effect for all you allies with the -1 penalty, or use the sword for the special strike and what not without the benefit of the banner rules. That's just how I would look at it and play it out.

rififivos · **Joined:** Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:03 pm **Posts:** 50

How about carrying both a banner and a spear? I can't see anything in the rules prohibiting that either. It would be really useful if my bannerman could supporrt the warrior infront of him.

Stormcrow · **Joined:** Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:02 am **Posts:** 218

rififivos wrote:

How about carrying both a banner and a spear? I can't see anything in the rules prohibiting that either. It would be really useful if my bannerman could supporrt the warrior infront of him.

That's a great point! It seems anything goes with banners these days.
Perhaps an FAQ is required in this one, it would make sense to class the banner as two handed weapon that only has the penalty and no bonus.
But as the rules are at the min do whatever you want!

belgiumfire · **Posted:** Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:40 am

This could be used for a lot of different tactics I would guess. And the FAQ of this moment says.

Click to: Show

Stormcrow · **Joined:** Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:02 am **Posts:** 218

Must have missed that one in the FAQ. Guess all options are open to banners then!

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:07 am

Well, you wouldn't be able to have banner, shield AND a spear. Another question, for a model supporting another model with a spear who also has a banner, would his roll to win a fight have a -1 modifier?

Knife in the Dark · **Posted:** Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:29 am

Draugluin wrote:

Well, you wouldn't be able to have banner, shield AND a spear. Another question, for a model supporting another model with a spear who also has a banner, would his roll to win a fight have a -1 modifier?

I believe the -1 modifier is on all cases regardless of what other equipment is equipped

ResurrectedBones · **Joined:** Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:50 pm **Posts:** 66

I was under the impression that the -1 was applied reagrdless of the weapon used in the combat because of the shear difficulty of doing anything while still carrying a cumbersome banner.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:01 am

Just so I was clear, the banner bearer is backing up someone else with his own spear, so would the die rolled by the banner bearer have a -1 to win modifier? I would say yes, just asking general consensus because it's new to me that one model can have a banner and a spear.

Grungehog · **Posted:** Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:38 am

Picture this, let's say my banner bearer has either shield and spear or bow and spear, just imagine that when using these items, he simply anchors the banner into the ground until his actions are over for the turn.
Nothing stopping you having a banner, warhorn, shield/bow and spear!

(SBG) Shield and Banner

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