I think they will keep that element in the film, I'm in the camp that thinks Bilbo has the Arkenstone at the end of DOS. I think the scene where Thorin blocks him with the sword and points it at him is there to make Bilbo question whether he should give Thorin the Arkenstone.



I'm well aware of that, you could equally argue that Thorin enters Erebor through the passage so it served its purpose. My point was that having a secret passage that can only be entered at one specific time on one specific day a year is a really bizarre and unhelpful mechanism.



I think this makes a lot of sense but is a very optimistic reading of the text. I think if Tolkien had finished re-writing the Hobbit in the style of LOTR this may have been the case but as it stands the text is pretty clear that the door can ONLY be opened from the outside at that specific time.



Whilst this is almost certainly true I think PJ's done a far better job than the book. I think most people who have seen the films would be able to tell you who Thorin, Fili, Kili, Dwalin, Balin, Bofur and Bombur were, as well as being able to tell you something about their characters.

In the book the vast majority of the dwarves are a personality-free collective. I've read the book countless times over the years and would struggle to tell you anything unique about most of them. I think the vast majority of book readers would be able to tell you Thorin was the leader, Fili and Kili were the young ones, Balin's the old one and Bombur's the fat one. I really don't think there's an awful lot more to gain from any of the others, I'm pretty sure that 2 or 3 of them don't even have any lines throughout the entire book. I'm pretty sure we don't even learn that Fili and Kili are related to Thorin until after they're dead, at least PJ has gone someway in DOS to discussing their heritage.

I can understand the frustrations about Tauriel/Azog etc. but the dwarven company are FAR better developed in the films than they are in the book.

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The only thing that annoyed me in the film was why Thorin and Bilbo didn't just go back out of the exit they came out through when they had the argument instead of running around the mountain. It was like 2 feet away.

That's true. They talked a lot in the film, especially in the extended edition, about the sickness of the mind that Thror had with the treasure and how Thorin might also succumb to it. Bilbo probably over heard it and sees it in Thorin's eyes in that scene in the tunnel and doesn't give it to him.



Again I whole heartedly agree I just wish he could have flushed them all out and created great characters we could love, like the fellowship. Instead he throws the majority of them into the comic relief category, giving some of them cringe worthy lines, and then goes on to give the big parts to his elves.

pretty much what I'm saying is that I'm happy that PJ is giving us a more in depth look at middle earth (we wont get it any where else), but I just want to see more dwarves and Bilbo. And more good songs ! Misty Mountain Cold was my favourite part of AUJ! The dishes one not so much ..

I'm only up to page 3 of this. I just went and saw the movie for the first time yesterday and have a lot of spoiler-threads to catch up on now. Having said that I just wanted to throw in some of my thoughts though some are already echoed on the first couple pages.

First, I KNOW that the Dwarves in the book are all pretty much useless all the way up to the BoFA and that does NOT make for a very interesting movie. So I have no problem with many of the changes where the Dwarves are built up. But I thought the barrel scene was another Goblin Town style chase. Just too over the top for me personally. Fun to watch but one of two scenes in the film that totally took me out of the suspension of disbelief.

The other was the later parts of the Dwarves vs. Smaug. Again, way "too much" in my opinion and took up too much screen time that could have been put to better use elsewhere. I think when we went to three films PJ saw this as a chance to really show off Smaug. Obviously just having him talk to Bilbo then fly off, trash Laketown and get killed is not enough. And having seen how awesome they made Smaug look I agree! But I think they took it too far here. How convenient that just before Smaug attacked Erebor everything was in place and set up to pour that giant gold statue, but the dragon showed up JUST before someone could pull the lever. Luckily every bit of the process was staged and ready for just a couple people to finish it off. And luckily those fires were hot enough to melt down all that gold in just a couple minutes. I can't get 3 cups of water to boil that fast.

We could still have had that wonderfully done meeting between Bilbo and Smaug and had the dragon follow him around, "guess" his barrel rider reference then fly off...trash the side of the mountain, sending the Dwarves rushing inside, and fly off at the end toward the helpless Men just in time for the audience to shout "That's the worse place to end ever! I have to wait another YEAR??!?" The chase scene with the Dwarves really showed off the interior of Erebor and the work on Smaug but added little else.

Not trying to gripe here. Overall taking a children's book with a fair amount of silly and whimsical and delivering it as an appealing story in the same flavour of the LotR film trilogy is a big challenge that I think PJ handling well. I think DOS was better than AUJ.

Some of that time spent in those two points above could have been given to a longer scene with Beorn. Let's see him taking out some of the Orcs rather than just chasing the good guys.

I liked most of what was done in and around Thranduil'ls Halls. The relation between Elf/Dwarf is ok so far. They give a good setup for losses in the third movie (you know they're coming... ).

I am disappointed that Bard is not a true archer, but it does let them give an explanation for the gap in the scales as well as what a Black Arrow is. Maybe PJ thinks there are too many archers in the films already, and that even a great archer with special Black Arrow isn't enough to take out a dragon like Smaug.

I like the politics of Laketown.

"Da, why are there Dwarves coming out of our toilet? Will they bring us luck".

Nice to see the Wood Elves fight on screen as well as mine do on the table.

I really loved how Bilbo was able to understand the Spiders when he put the Ring on. Very creative way to show them as intelligent creatures without giving them true speech. I have no idea why they added that white bug thing though. Just a regular Spider standing between him and the Ring would have been fine for the plot. Most of the Spider scenes were awesome otherwise.

The first image of the Necromancer emerging from the flame and seeing it as the Eye was cool. Cycling through it half a dozen times after just to be sure we "get it" dulled it down.

The "spell of hiding" on Dol Guldur didn't make a lot of sense. So all the Orcs and Wargs were there but hidden from sight/sound...and as Gandalf and Radagast have been walking around they are all just moving out of their way to be sure they're not discovered? Kind of weak. How about just having everyone gathering in vast caves and dungeons below the abandoned fortress as well as in the woods around? I can let this one go but still a little weak for me.

The "tomb" of the Nazgul still bugs me. As far as I know they were never captured / killed / buried. Sorry, but there should be no tomb. They are not vampires or zombies. They did not "die". They were corrupted by the One Ring and have lived so long under the power and influence that they became Ringwraiths. The whole tomb thing was just a visible way to alude to their return, which TBH we shouldn't know anything about until Gandalf learns of it in FotR. If they had to do a tomb for them though, I guess this was an interesting way to do it.

Azog looked much better. Still prefer the physical actor of Lurtz but these CGI orcs are pretty good when they have time to actually do them right.

Smaug...oh, thank you! Many of Tolkien's sketches show him pretty serpentine so I'm glad they kept that, and he had a great voice and presence. The change from four-legged to two-legged was for the better I think. I have yet to see a four-legged dragon representation that looks like it could actually fly, even though I wish someone could do it since I really love the look for four-legged dragons.

The gold in the main hall of Erebor is a nag for me as well. I know the King decided to have all that treasure stacked up around him as we see in the beginning of AUJ, but really...that much? It's not like Smaug could go around and collect all the other gold in the mountain and bring it to him. He's sleeping on what was actually there. That's a pretty big pile to put it mildly.

And as I think someone else mentioned, Bilbo pulls the Ring off inappropriately early around Smaug. It would have been far more interesting to see the dragon hunting him via sound and smell while having the conversation. Just not as attractive on film though since when we can "see" someone wearing the Ring then everything else is in Twilight mode, and when we see normally the the wearer is invisible. So again, I know WHY they did it, just wish they didn't have to.

Overall I'd say better than AUJ (which I enjoy) and I'm really looking forward to the third film. I keep them in perspective of being adapted from a children's story that is pretty silly at many points and brought into context of a major epic (LotR) and I think he's doing a good job of balance.

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