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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:49 am 
Elven Warrior
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Bandobras Took wrote:
Gandlaf the Grey wrote:
From the point of view of someone who only models, the option for diorama's was endless and my mind is tick tick ticking, however I will need to see this a few times more.


Yep I've been thinking along the same lines and my next big diorama/display project will be Barrels out of Bond (which I got for Christmas! :D ). The hobby options this film brings are huge!

As for the film itself, I'm afraid I was a little disappointed. I kind of liked it as a film but for me, as a huge fan of Tolkien and someone who really feels his work was enhanced beautifully in the other 4 films (more so in LotR), there were not enough moments of emotional connection like there were in LotR or even AUJ. I think the film-makers missed an opportunity in the theatrical version and should have made it less of a Super Hero movie and taken out the unnecessary plot lines and set-pieces (Love Triangle, Elves battling in Laketown, Smaug vs Dwarves showdown). The left over screen time should then have been devoted to moments of some of Howard Shore's soaring score work with some shots of Thranduil's Halls (nowhere near enough of that) and perhaps background flashbacks to Beorn's origins. Just some of the deeper moments when you can take a breath and relax for a moment because as a Middle Earth film it needs that.

In my ideal Hobbit movie, I feel the Azog chasing plot line should never have existed. However I did enjoy the Barrels sequence and the spicing up was quite good there so who knows...?

There was a lot that was excellent. E.g: the slow corruption of Bilbo by the Ring (Martin Freeman is fabulous!); the designs for all the races again top notch (the Elves especially good); Thranduil himself was excellent... I mean the list could go on but, for me, there was just too much in this film that overstepped the mark in terms of poetic licence with Tolkien's wonderful work. I think TABA will be very good and be back up to the heights of AUJ. After DoS, I was left thinking why they ever made it into 3 movies (2 would have been perfect, IMO) because as black1blade said, nothing really happened.

Anyway sorry about that but the rant is finally over :oops: :-D


I agree whole heartedly.

I honestly think we would have gotten better The Hobbit films if it had been directed by Guillermo del Toro as originally planned.

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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:04 am 
Elven Elder
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Del Toro? Seriously? It would probably be worse.

Also, why are people saying that nothing significant happened in DoS? Poor Fimbul the Hunter was cruelly murdered by Legolas. His wife Fimbulla will have to live out the rest of her life with such grief. And don't you know that TABA will contain a half-hour detour in which we see her reaction? You people are heartless.

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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:19 am 
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Also the actress signed on the condition that she wouldn't.......be in a love triangle.


Really? I'll be interested to look more deeper into that. Is there a website or article that talks about it?
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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:11 pm 
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Hirumith, the Grey Knight wrote:
Gene Parmesan wrote:
Movie wise it was a bit of a mess, but visually beautiful.

That pretty much sums up how I felt about it. I'm clearly in the minority, but generally thought the movie was only OK, and definitely the weakest, by far, of PJ's Middle-Earth movies.

My main beef with this movie was that it "nuked the fridge" so many times that I never felt like anything was at stake in any of the action sequences. I like that they made the barrel escape into a bit of an action scene, but was rolling my eyes at the Bombur: Dwarf Barrel of Death bit. I didn't like the ridiculous acrobatics that Legolas pulled off in the LOTR trilogy, but it's only one character, he's an elf and they're supposed to have supernatural agility, and it only happens a couple of times. Not so with dwarves, and there's been a tendency for many of the dwarves to pull off all kinds of ludicrous stunts in the two Hobbit movies, so far.

...

In the end, I thought it was visually stunning, consistent with the other films in that regard, and very well cast. The over-the-top action scenes, however, seemed to take front stage over any sense of narrative, which was a shame. I'm not necessarily a purist, or curmudgeon that thinks everything needs to follow the book to a T, but I did think that, in most instances where they significantly deviated from the book for this film, they did so unnecessarily, and ultimately to the detriment of the movie.


Seconded. The wife and I saw it last week and that pretty much exactly what we thought (read the full post above for more info)

Had it's ups and downs, and , as the wife said "It's no Lord of the Rings" Clearly aimed at a younger crowd, but still and enjoyable romp back through middle earth

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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:52 pm 
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Quote:
Clearly aimed at a younger crowd, but still and enjoyable romp back through middle earth


But isn't it suppose to aim for a younger crowd as the book did?
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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:32 pm 
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:roll: I saw the film in HFR 3D Imax and the visuals were mostly stunning, although mistakes became more visible (martin freeman's rubber hobbit feet peeling off). The barrel sequence looked amazing but what the hell was with that pixelated POV shot? It threw me out completely! I think a little less CGI is also in order, as it lacks impact and prevents combat scenes from looking impressive. Compare the combat scenes in the LOTR films to those of the Hobbit films. The difference is that the former is more brutal and real and has more impact due to the use of extras in prosthetic costumes actually fighting with the actors, whereas the latter is much more choreographed, with actors pretending to fight something that isn't there. Watch the battle for Moria flashback in AUJ and concentrate on the dwarves and orcs fighting in the background. When you concentrate on their movements, you'll see what I mean.

I do hope that the third film has some ore quiet moments in which the characters converse. What the LOTR films so good was not just bloomin enormous battles, but the chemistry between the characters. A surprising amount of time in those films was actually just the characters sitting down with each other and chatting.

a few more things; 'the constantly clean sword' (CCS) convention, Bilbo not being cut at all after tumbling down a mountain of gold and countless weapons, the whole gold statue thing :/ thorin bodyboarded in a wheelbarrow on a river of molten gold...

They say that the second film in a trilogy is always the odd one out, I do hope so. The most interesting for me parts in TDOS were definitely those that revolved around Gandalf and Dol Guldur.

PETER JACKSON! STOP TRYING TO IMPRESS ME! MAKE ME FEEL SOMETHING!

sorry

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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:47 pm 
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it is more than obvious that PJ is not sure where he is taking this. Azog should have been killed by Dain. Yeah he is awesome, but, that original Bolg was an idea at some point and if you had that original Bolg doing all the things you have seen Azog doing after the moria battle, it would have worked just fine.
But I think this was a very bad movie not for any specific elements inside it, but as a story it is missing all of what makes a story. There is no ending. This movie cannot stand alone. Look at other trilogy or series films and each film is made as a stand alone film even if they hint at content for a next film. This movie gave us too much middle filler and not pay off. I think it will be a great film when it has the rest of it's parts in the third film. right now instead of three films, I feel like I saw one film (Auj can stand alone very well) and then half of a second film.

Aside from that I can live with most of the deviation from the great book of which this film took every single chance to toss the book and put something new inplace.

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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:04 pm 
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I really liked the ending. It isn't an ending and doesn't have a resolution, but it has a climactic action scene which is good and thrilling. Gave the Dwarves something to do. In addition it got me super pumped for Part 3. Smaug is on the warpath. It's going to get me into the cinema the moment it comes out.

Having Smaug die in this film would be a mistake IMO because he's the central antagonist so you need him around, so if we didn't have a proper ending then oh well that's something I'll live with.

Bolg/Azog/old Bolg is something confusing me though that seems all muddled. Why does Azog have to command Saurons forces? Why can't the Nazgul? I'm so muddled up there.

Gandalf vs Sauron was super awesome. I love how powerful Gandalf is, showing us he's a big hitter, outwitting Azog, but Sauron's power is obviously too great. Can't wait til Galadriel, Saruman and Gandalf team up to take down Sauron. Hopefully that's when the seeds of Saruman's evil will be planted since they're painting this more as a LOTR prequel.
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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:11 pm 
Elven Elder
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Quote:
Why does Azog have to command Saurons forces? Why can't the Nazgul? I'm so muddled up there.


A rough guess would be because the nazgul are out looking for the ring?

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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:37 pm 
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SouthernDunedain wrote:
Quote:
Why does Azog have to command Saurons forces? Why can't the Nazgul? I'm so muddled up there.


A rough guess would be because the nazgul are out looking for the ring?


Then what was one of the Nazgul, the Witch-King of all, doing just hanging about at Dol Guldor waiting for Radagast to show up?

Not gonna lie I like the fact that the Orc horde is at Dol Guldor, and I love that Azog got a confrontation with Gandalf, I just think keeping Azog in Bolg's shoes and given him that role (duel with Legolas etc.) would've been better.
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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:47 pm 
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Think about this: the horde of orcs and wargs are mostly gone from Dol Guldur, so who's left for Galadriel to face? Sauron and the Nine. Imagine, we'll have the White Council vs Sauron and the Nine. Galadriel vs Sauron, Saruman vs the Witch-King, Elrond vs Khamul, Radagast, Gandalf and probably Celeborn, maybe Glorfindel vs the others. Bunnies vs Fell Beasts. I'm excited.

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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:50 pm 
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Can't wait for the White Council to kick some ass. It'll be the reason why they're all so oblivious in Fellowship.
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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:56 pm 
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Maybe the ringwraiths were too weak like Sauron at that point to lead any army, that's my theory.

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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:00 pm 
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Oh good point.

I still don't get why Azog went back to Dol Guldor though. Should've have Bolg lead the Necromancers Army, whilst Azog continues the chase of Thorin.

1. This demonstrates Azogs character as single minded and ruthless in his pursuit of Thorin. He wants Thorin to die so much he's willing to defy Sauron to get what he wants.
2. Bolg was kinda Devlan Mud, he wasn't introduced, we didn't know much about him. Building up Azog as a main antagonist in this film was great. He had so much more personality than Lurtz or Gothmog and was a great foil to Thorin.
3. The Legolas vs Bolg fight would've been so much better if Bolg was Azog. We would've really been rooting for Legolas to kill off Azog properly, and the fight would have just been much more intense and emotional. What we got was well choreographed but it could've been mcuh better.
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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:42 pm 
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orc-archer wrote:
Maybe the ringwraiths were too weak like Sauron at that point to lead any army, that's my theory.


Likely this. They are essentially bound to Sauron and Sauron himself is still gathering strength. So if Sauron needs some terrorising done, he doesn't call for his special hunter ghosts, but rather his motley orc hordes.

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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:34 pm 
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Does anybody else think the film, although enjoyable was a little rushed?
Its like, lets get Beorn out the way quickly, Mirkwood, wood elves and lake town all rushed through just to get to Smaug ?

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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:57 pm 
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RZero wrote:
Does anybody else think the film, although enjoyable was a little rushed?
Its like, lets get Beorn out the way quickly, Mirkwood, wood elves and lake town all rushed through just to get to Smaug ?


My impression exactly.. I'd loved to see more time taken for Beorn or Mirkwood.. and maybe less barrel-action instead ^^

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 Post subject: Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:53 am 
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Rognarr wrote:
RZero wrote:
Does anybody else think the film, although enjoyable was a little rushed?
Its like, lets get Beorn out the way quickly, Mirkwood, wood elves and lake town all rushed through just to get to Smaug ?


My impression exactly.. I'd loved to see more time taken for Beorn or Mirkwood.. and maybe less barrel-action instead ^^


Yeah, for me Mirkwood is a big part of the book. Maybe see more in the DVD extended edition, or it will be DoS with 100% more Smaug

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