Some really great write-ups in this thread, especially concerning the historical implications of spears, pikes and cavalry.

The fact that the SBG has subtly written into the foundation of its' rules something that so many other games would allow to devolve into countless modifiers and re-rolls and soforth is great!

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Some really interesting ideas on this thread. I think maybe a spear block (not individual spear armed warriors) should have an advantage against cavalry (maybe spear blocks (defined as a group of warriors (can't say spear armed because people would put swords in front) who are in base contact with at least three other warriors) cause terror for horses representing a horse's desire to not be made into a kebab) but I also think cavalry should have a 'counter-advantage' or spear blocks should have a 'counter-disadvantage' for balance. I think a movement penalty for spear blocks would make sense. Or something relating to being weak on the flanks (I can't think of a way to do this without it getting quite complicated).

The films didn't seem to hire any mentally normal horse extras! A charge like the Rohirrim's in RoTK may be possible as the horses would build up enough momentum to be unable to stop at the sight of spear wielding orcs but I don't think ANY horse would run towards a Mumak! They panic just at the smell of regular size elephants!

As this is primarily a skirmish game I don't like the idea of even having big blocks of spears but I concede it is a good idea in games where you can afford them. However I think the idea of blocks causing terror to cav is sound as the distances covered in games are usually not as large as the charge of the Rohirrim so horses are well aware of what they are running into. However, there should be a counter advantage for Cavalry to offset this. That's crucial. No single unit should have the ability to make another redundant.

Maybe a spear block's move should be lowered a value so low that they can't surround models that charge into them. Or maybe in a spear block any model in base contact with a charged model should be completely unable to move if charged representing them bracing for impact and their lack of manoeuvrability when engaged in close combat. Maybe the former could apply to spear blocks and the later to pike blocks.

I realise I've rambled but I think there are lots of ways that we could make this game so much more realistic and balanced but hopefully without increasing the amount of dice rolling!

Quick question: Can someone do me a favor and point me to the spot in the rulebook or the FAQ where the whole "Spear/pike armed models negate the cavalry charge bonus" rule is located?

This is actually the first I've heard of it and I cant find it in the rulebook.

Spears and pikes do not negate a cavalry charge. However, spears balance the odds quite quickly, and pikes swing the odds strongly back to infantry.

But realistically if you want to maintain any kind of unit cohesion then your force does become less mobile and you are vulnerable to flanking. The game mechanics already cover this quite well.

If you want to "swing around" a cavalry unit that has charged into your block then you've just opened up your whole formation to inevitable counter-attacks and just lost all real advantage of a "Pike-block".

IMO formations don't need dice bonuses or the like, the mechanics give major bonuses if you're disciplined enough to concede a small momentary advantage for a later one.

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As Whafrog said, spears don't actually have a special rule that negates cavalry charge bonuses, it's just a colloquial expression amongst players for the negative effect spear support has on a cavalry charge.

The main bonus of cavalry charge is the extra attack, a Westfold Redshield goes from 1 attack to 2. By putting a spear armed model behind the charged model the defender also goes from 1 attack to 2. The charging model still gets its extra attack but essentially the bonus has been negated. An elf supported by a spear is more likely to win than the charging Westfold Redshield and an Uruk supported by a pike has a 50/50 shot, thus 'negating' the charge bonus. If you get another pike support in there then of course the odds swing against the Redshield.

If the Redshield wins then all his opponents still get knocked down, nothing is negated, it's just that his increased chances of winning the fight are negated by a single supporting model.

Hope that clears things up

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