what about a -1 Fight value when the Dothraki are fighting on foot rather than horseback?
The greatbow seems to be to much, a longbow would be understandable.

_________________
The men of Dale are fighting a battle with my brush at the moment.
3 guys will never know the grey again... rest in peace

I think what Gothmog is getting at about the Unsullied is that as eunuchs they can't be as strong or aggressive as a regular bloke. However, when 50,000 Dothraki met 3,000 Unsullied outside the walls of Qohor the Dothraki were defeater partly because of Dothraki pride and partly because of the discipline of the Unsullied.

If game of thrones was all about brute physical strength then the night watch would have been wiped out by wildings ages ago. The Unsullied make up for their lack of hormones with discipline but also physical training and immunity to pain. Maybe the peak of the Westerossi, actual knights, are a match for them, but ordinary Westerossi men-at-arms, who are little more than glorified peasants with a few weeks of training? Not a chance.

_________________
"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

And herein lies the common problem. The Dothraki are inferior to the Westerossi, they would get slaughtered had they faced 50,00 Westerossi.

A more accurate profile for an Unsullied Warrior would be:

F S D A W C
3/- 3 5 1 1 5

Wargear: hand weapon, armour, shield and spear.

Special rules: Body Guard - or some variation thereof which allows them to automatically pass all courage tests, and possibly a rule which allows them to become have +! Fight if they are within 3" of a Hero from the same army list. And possibly a special rule about spear counting as pikes as long as they are facing cavalry

They are unequivocally not Fight 5 Warriors. They are barely, if at all, on par with Westerossi - their fearlessness is pretty much the only thing they have better than Westerossi.

And Jorah is not in the "Friend zone", Daenerys is in the right and I hate the idea of using TV show memes as the names for rules.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

The Dothraki aren't that good head on sure, but Westrossi, though superb individual fighters, have little or no cohesion. What makes them so good, so much better than Unsullied?

The Unsullied are impervious to pain, are totally disciplined and fight in a phalanx formation, which is easily superior to western Medieval cavalry techniques (such as those the Westerossi use). For example, the Scots fought in a schiltron formation which is basically a round phalanx and beat English cavalry any time they fought. The Westerossi men-at-arms are decent fighters at best, and their knights vainglorious and greedy for fame, not the sign of someone who is going to listen to orders.

Has the author of the ASOIAF actually said that the Unsullied would lose to Westerossi, as he specified previously that Ned was merely a decent swordsman? Or is this simply speculation on your part?

_________________
"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

Changed the Great Bow to an Elven Bow. Also, just because the Dothraki fight upon horses a lot it doesn't really mean they aren't good at fighting on foot. And if they were fight 2 because they weren't mounted, it would be a real drawback. If I were looking to change it I would probably give them an advantageous special rule when mounted opposed to a negative one when unmounted.




Realized that they were castrated so obviously they wouldn't be as strong as your average man, so I dropped it down to 3.

It can be difficult to say who would win with 3000 vs 50000. It is a very situational event. Who has as terrain advantage, what are their reasons for fighting, who has Roose Bolton on their side.




Was just a bit of fun and was mainly just a place holder for when I rename it.

_________________
I understand that if any more words come pouring out your mouth, I'm going to have to eat every chicken in this room.

Sorry I haven't posted here in a while.

Dothraki are not inferior fighters to Westerossi, the entire Dothraki culture from cradle to grave is based around combat and bloodshed; whereas most Westerossi warriors will be peasants and farmers boys recruited to fight by their liege lord. I agree the Dothraki would have a hard time against a Westeros army, but only because Dothraki weaponry is not designed for fighting armoured foes.

Anyway here are my suggestions for how to make the Dothraki and Unsullied flavoursome, playable, and themed to their book and tv counterparts:

Bloodlust: The Dothraki are renowned warriors who many consider to have no equal. Their legendary prowess in combat stems from the hierarchical soceity they live, that exclusively rewards the strong, and violently punishes the weak. All Dothraki models cause terror, in addition, once a Dothraki has slain an enemy model, he/she gains an attack.

Eunuchs: The unsullied are amongst the most disciplined warriors in the world, a life of training and drills has made the unsullied a force to be reckoned with. All unsullied are fearless, in addition if two unsullied are in base contact, they gain +1 fight value. If there is a line of ten or more unsullied models that are in base contact, they gain +1 strength and defence on top of the +1 fight.

I don't like the bloodlust ability, it seems similtaneously overpowered and hard to keep track of; two attack models are usually the most broken in terms of points anyway, and besides, the Dothraki's emphasis should be on archery, not close combat. As for the other one, I like how it represents discipline but I think that just giving the Unsullied the easterling phalanx rule would be enough, as well as making it easier to keep track of in the heat of battle.

_________________
"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

@VandalCabbage: Not hard to keep track of at all, the Dothraki player can just bring along small markers to place on the bases of the models who have killed other models, simples. The boost could be to fight value or strength if people think that would work better, but extra attacks is the best way to represent 'beserker' like warriors, and at fight 3 it really isn't overpowered - take hunter orcs for example. Similarly making an uninterrupted line of ten men is really not hard to keep track of, chances are it will only be around for 1/2 turns of combat then be broken anyway.

Back to the profiles:

I really like the Eastern heroes, Khal Drogo is the beast he should be, and the bloodriders are very interesting 'high risk high reward' models. For a 60 point model who cannot lead a warband Belwas should probably have a 5+ save though. Similarly I do believe Jorah should have 3 M/W/F - 70 points for a model that has to stay next to Dany deserves a good stock of heroic points. Lastly Daario feels like someone who should have throwing daggers and 3 attacks.

A few notes about Dany, who I think you have done a GREAT job on. You all picked up on how I am a Dany basher, but I think her profile represents all her good points (banner effects, sneaky dragon attacks) but also her bad points (lack of might means a lack of tactical prowess etc). Anyway here is what I would change to justify her pts:

Makes me sick to say this but Dany should be a bit more powerful, perhaps make her a 6" banner? Perhaps give her access to strengthen will/renew on a 2+ so she has something to do with those will points? Also maybe give her access to Dothraki armour? The 'breathe fire' rule is a shooting attack, so give the dragons 2+ shoot value (and specify they don't need to use will to cast it). Why is Drogon more expensive than the rest - he has no difference in statistics? Lastly, the Dragons seem more like they should be about 45pts each, otherwise you are paying 255pts for a big banner (Dany) and 3 low level eages.

Other than that - GREAT JOB! Would you mind me doing profiles for a few of the Northern Houses/Iron Islands?

The hunter orcs are some of the most overpowered units this game has; and they are only balanced out by the fact that their list has terrible cavalry and archers. The Dothraki, on the other hand, have great cavalry and archers. As for story backing, why on earth are they more bloodthirsty than the average Westerossi? They are the equivalent of Steppe cavalry archers, good at horseriding and archery but not necessarily at close combat. Finally, their armies are described as big, so it would be more thematic if they could have more cheap units than fewer expensive units.

I'm not saying that the rule is bad, I just think that phalanx is much simpler.
I agree that Dany should have some sort of aura magic. Maybe terrifying aura and aura of command. (Dragon wise, doesn't Drogo have more strength?)

_________________
"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

I like the idea of this as it justifies the Unsullied's combat prowess is not solely down to individual skill but a mixture of that and discipline. However, that would potentially make them fight 6 so I'd need to drop their fight value down to 4. I haven't touched the Easterlings so I don't know the phalanx rule. Maybe a change to the Eunuchs rule could be if a model is fighting with two ranks behind him he gains the +1 fight value. This somewhat waters down the rule as it forces you to pay for the pike and kinda simulates a phalanx more.

I'v also given her a bit more of a buff without giving her magical powers.


Go for the Iron Islands for sure. My mate and I planning to do more Noth men soon, but please send me your ideas about them too.

_________________
I understand that if any more words come pouring out your mouth, I'm going to have to eat every chicken in this room.

Re: the bolded.

You are wrong. This a common myth who think that Tyrion's description as a typical army Tywin's peasants are an exception to the rule. The Westerossi soldiers are not mostly peasants and farmers, they are trained soldiers, who start their training at about 10ish. Peasants are only used on rare occasions such as Stafford "The Idiotic" Lannister who got crushed by Robb's trained soldiers. That's why only about 1% of any given areas population makes up their army (0.5% for North, and 2% for Iron Islands) and why people like you seem to think Dothraki are better than average Westerossi soldiers. They are better than the peasants yes, but against the average Westerossi soldier, their skill us about the same, but Westerossi have better armour and tactics.

This thread on Westeros.org explains this point very well, read the OP:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/to ... -westeros/

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

That's a great resource, thanks for finding it and it does illuminate the question a lot. However, I think that better "tactics" is stretching it a bit. The Dothraki tactics are best at range, the Westerossi at close combat. You say that their skill is about the same, but the Westerossi have better armour and tactics(in close combat). Maybe compared to the Dothraki, but the Unsullied tactics beat the Westerossi tactics anyday because they fight in a phalanx formation and their training makes them follow orders absolutely, whereas the Westerossi have discipline that varies greatly from army to army.

I agree that 50'000 Westerossi could beat 3'000 Unsullied. However, 3'000 Unsullied could easily beat 10'000 Westerossi; because you yourself have said that Westerossi are significantly, but not superfluously, better than Dothraki. Ergo, in terms of close combat:

4. Slaves/peasants
3. Dothraki
2. Westerossi
1. Unsullied

Ergo, the Unsullied deserve at least fight 4, if not fight 5

_________________
"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

Brotherhood without Banners

Beric Dondarrion- 115 points

Beric Dondarrion may lead Warbands selected from the Brotherhood without Banners

F 5/3+
S 4
D 7
A 3
W 2
C 6
M/W/F 3/2/1

Wargear:
• Sword
• Shield
• Heavy Armour

Special Rules:
• Everyman here has felt a sword on his shoulder: Beric is a Lord of honour and courage, to whom the war of five kings is irrelevant, only intervening to save the lives of the common folk, leading the brotherhood without banners as a chivalrous knight of legend, and knighting them all in his name. Due to honour and righteousness he instils in the brotherhood, Beric has a 12” inch “Stand Fast”, and gives the following friendly heroes chosen from the Brotherhood without Banners army list +1 fight whilst within 12”: Thoros, Lem, Anguy.

• Undying: As a believer of the God of Light, Beric has become a revenant of sorts, seemingly unkillable, as every time he is laid low, the lord of light breathes life back into him, partly through the prayers of Thoros but mainly through the mystery surrounding R’hllor. As a result, whenever Beric Dondarion is killed, leave him on his side. If Thoros is within 6” inches of Beric in the movement phase, he may expend a will point to bring Beric back to life on 1 wound. However, every time Thoros does this, Berics courage drops by 1, as the trauma leaves him less and less stable every time.


Options:
• Horse-10pts

Thoros of Myr-90 points

Thoros may lead Warbands selected from the Brotherhood without Banners

F 4/4+
S 4
D 6
A 2
W 2
C 6
M/W/F 2/4/2

Wargear:
• Heavy Armour
• Sword

Special Rules:
• The Red Wizard: A son of a wealthy family in Myr, Thoros was raised as a Red Priest of the Lord of the Light, and despite his rambunctious nature, Thoros had a knack for visions, and high valyrian. As a result, Thoros was sent by the priesthood to convert King Robert and eliminate the faith of the seven. Failing this, Thoros drank and slept his way into the company of Beric, where he witnessed the true power of the Lord of Light. Thoros is fearless, and has access to the following spells:

1. Command: 4+

2. Aura of Dismay-2+

• Fury of the red god-4+: May only be cast on Beric Dondarrion and himself. 12” range, when cast Beric or Thoros gains the affect of fury and adds plus one to his wound rolls. Also, if Beric or Thoros kills an enemy hero whilst under the effect of this spell, Thoros regains a will point.

Options:
• Shield-5 points
• Horse-10 points

Anguy-85 points

Anguy may lead Warbands selected from the Brotherhood without Banners

F 4/2+
S 5
A 2
W 2
C 4
M/W/F 2/1/1

Wargear:
• Elven Bow
• Dagger
• Armour
• Elven Cloak

Special Rules:
• Master Archer: Winner of the archery competition at the tourney of the hand, Anguy squanders his new found wealth and drinks his way into the brotherhood without banners, still retaining his skill as a marksman. Due to his superb archery, Anguy ignores all in the way test, including combat. Also, on a natural roll to hit of a 6, Anguy generates another shot.

Lady Stoneheart-95 points

Lady Stoneheart may only be included when Beric Dondarrion is not included in the same force and vice versa.

Lady Stoneheart may lead Warbands selected from the Brotherhood without Banners.

F 4/5+
S 4
D 4
A 2
W 2
C 7
M/W/F 2/2/2

Wargear:
• Dagger

Special rules:
• Fearless
• The Hangwoman: Through the sacrifice of Beric Donarrion, Catelyn Tully has been brought back to life as Lady Stoneheart. However, the slaughter she witnessed at the Red Wedding has broken something in side of her, and she seems to resemble something far more sinister than a vendetta fuelled Mother, her malice is palpable to her anyone she deems unworthy or an enemy of the north. Due to the dread the re-animated Catelyn Tully brings in her enemies, Lady Stoneheart has the Harbinger of evil rule, with a 6” effect. Also Lady Stoneheart may choose to “hang” her victims in place of normally killing them. When Lady Catelyn kills or is within 3” of a combat where an enemy model dies, roll a dice for each dead enemy model and on a 4+, her Harbinger of Evil rule increases by 3”. After doing this 5 times, she gains the Blades of the dead special rule.

Options:
• Horse-10pts

Warriors of the Brotherhood without Banners

Outlaw- 5 points
F 2/5+
S 3
D 4
A 1
W 1
C 2


Wargear:
• Sword
• Armour

Special rules:
• Some knights are dark and full of terror: In contrast to the noble aim Beric put forth when he founded the Brotherhood, there are certain members who would rather pillage and loot, and see the Brotherhood as the perfect way to vent their aggression. Outlaws gain no fight bonus from Beric, however, Outlaws are resourceful fighters, and whilst they may lack training, they fight with an unpredictable savagery. As a result, all Outlaws have access to the Piecring Strike special attack, and may also feint.

Turncoats-7 points
F 3/4+
S 3
D 4
A 1
W 1
C 3

Wargear:
• Sword
• Armour

Special rules:
• Only a cat of a different coat: The Brotherhood without banners mainstay of soldiers are turncoats who have flocked to Berics cause to help save the populace from the war of five kings. As a result, Turncoats have the bodyguard rule if Beric is alive. However, due to their two faced nature, they are at -1 courage if Beric dies.


Options:
• Shield-2 points
• Bow-1 point


Knights of the hollow hill-13pts
F 4/4+
S 4
D 5
A 1
W 1
C 4

Wargear:
Sword and Heavy armour

Special rules:
Though the brotherhood without banners consists mainly of deserters and bandits, there are noble sers scattered throughout their ranks, and for these men Berics cause was worth sacrificing their heritage and family name. As a result, Knights of the hollow hill are considered to be within range of a banner so long as Beric is within 6”, and they gain +1 and have the bodyguard rule for Beric.

Options:
• Shield-2 points
• Horse-6 points
• Lance-4 points

_________________
I understand that if any more words come pouring out your mouth, I'm going to have to eat every chicken in this room.

Why does The Brotherhood without Banners have access to a banner? (on the Knight)
IMO Thoros should get 3 attacks as he did win the Melee fight at Robert's tournament. (first book?) there's also not much a magician can do with only 3 Will. If you bump him up to 4 then he's worth taking. and maybe i'm overpowering him compared to his role in the story, but how about a rule to do with his flaming swords? similar to Blades of the Dead maybe, or even just setting a model ablaze if he rolls a 6 to wound.
Lady Stoneheart should not be able to be fielded in the same army as the Lightning Lord. End of. and why does the healing power of Thoros not apply to her as well, seeing as she is animated by the same magic as Dondarrion?

_________________

Maybe thoros should have the opportunity to set his sword on fire mid-game, but has to roll a D6 every turn to set someone ablaze as you said but if it's a one his sword disintegrates and he's unarmed for the rest of the game.

P.S. Do the turncoats get -1 courage if Beric is not fielded in the army at all?

_________________
"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

Where's Lem lemoncloak? He's much more important than pointless Anguy.

And yes Stoneheart overrides Beric so you can't have both, and drop the banner options.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

This is an interesting thread. I've been toying with the idea of making rules for GoT for a while now but never got round to it.

Off topic but does anyone know if the Masterworks miniatures are 28mm? If so I will be putting these rules to good use with some Perry War of the Roses figures alongside the Masterworks characters.

_________________
There’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for.

Thoros is older and fatter now. I personally don't think he should be en par with Beric in either fight or attacks.



Fury of the red god is representative of the flaming weapon.



Thoros refuses to bring Cat back from the dead, thats when Dondarrion 'sacrifices' himself to bring her back (maybe different kind of methods to
bring someone back to life than Thoros)



coming soon



Im not too sure. After having a look at them though I would say they are probably a bit larger than 28mm.



Also did the changes to Knights, Lady Stoneheart and Thoros (will, point adjustment and Fury of the red god now applies to him as well)

_________________
I understand that if any more words come pouring out your mouth, I'm going to have to eat every chicken in this room.

Maester of the Citadel-60 points

Maesters may be taken in the following Houses: Stark, Lannister, Tyrell, Arryn, Tully, Martell, Baratheon or Targaryen.

Maesters may lead Warbands from their respective armies.

F 3/4+
S 3
D 3
A 1
W 2
C 4
M/W/F 1/4/2

Wargear: Unarmoured

Special Rules:
• Wisdom beyond par: Through old age and experience, Maesters have gained wisdom on the aspects of life in all its forms. The controlling player may reroll a single priority roll once per game.

•Scholar: all Maesters are trained in the arts of warcraft, ravenry, stonework, healing, medicine and even few in the higher mysteries which dabble with witchcraft or magic. Each field of study that they have mastered is represented by the metals they were in a chain around their neck. A Maester may expend any amount of will to attempt to perform any one of the following per turn (treated as spells):

1. Discipline of healing: A single friendly model within 6” regains 1 wound. 5+ to cast.

2. Art of War: A single friendly model within 12” counts as being in range of a banner for the rest of the turn. 4+ to cast.

3. Ravenry: The Maester and a single friendly model within 12” will automatically pass any courage tests they are made to take for the rest of the turn. 4+ to cast.

4. Knights of the mind: A single friendly model within 12" regains a point of might or will. 5+ to cast.

Options:
• Horse-10 points
• Dagger-2 points

_________________
I understand that if any more words come pouring out your mouth, I'm going to have to eat every chicken in this room.