What profile is the best fit for civilians?

Mapper · **Posted:** Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:34 pm

Reading the threads on using different miniatures to represent civilians, it got me thinking on what profile would best fit if you used civilians in a scenario? Don't want to use them as window dressing but as an active participant in a scenario.

For example Rohan civilians/farmers?

Do you take and upgrade Hobbit militia/Farmer Maggot? Downgrade Sharkey's Ruffians or Wildmen of Dunland? Take Rohan warriors profile and reduce them as warriors when they get older or wounded become farmers?

Know you can't post stats for existing GW models but would be interested in how to proceed.

Alatar of Rhun · **Posted:** Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:26 pm

Maybe hobbit militia with a 6" move value and no special rules or war gear? Ideally civilians should be a bit on the weak side

I'd say go with hobbit archers for points value

pokyha · **Posted:** Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:00 pm

Well you could use 2 civilian profiles one representing the woman old men and children running for there lives trying to escape the savage orcs or whoever attack the village they are in. The other can be the farming/working men old or young who pick up the nearest weapon they can find to defend their village a pick, hoe, kitchen knife etc.

You have to figure out what one to use for your senario

I would give them a profile like this.

Civilian (woman, children, elderly)
--F - S - D - A - W - C
1/5 - 2 - 3 - 1 - 1 - 1

Unarmed
Point value=2

Civilian (Teenage boys, peasant men)
--F - S - D - A - W - C
2/4 - 3 - 3 - 1 - 1 - 3
Point value=4

They could have fight 3 but I see them as this is the first time they are using a weapon so they are completely untrained.

Gwaryan · **Posted:** Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:48 pm

I'd say the profile for civilians taking a stand should perhaps be more like this.

Civilian
--F - S - D - A - W - C
2/5+ - 3 - 3 - 1 - 1 - 2
Point value=3

Comparing them to Warriors of Minas Tirith I figure their shoot value and courage should be inferior; those guys are trained warriors and it doesn't make sense to be that peasants should have an equal ranged ability, nor be as brave.

Hodush · **Posted:** Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:30 pm

--F - S - D - A - W - C pts 2
1/5+ - 1 - 3 - 1 - 1 - 2

S1 - A stone hurts a lot if you are hit by it, but it is S1 only, so maybe S2 is too much.
F1 is probably better - goblins might not be the best fighters, but they would have had some practice at least so putting them at the same FV as a young boy etc doesn't make the most sense.

And of course they are unarmed, so -1 to win the fight.

If that is too low for you, then you can make a Militia profile, Civilians who take up "arms", so they would have a club or fork or something and are more likely to be a little stronger, so give them S2. Cost of 3.

I don't really like dividing it up into women/children/old men etc as it just makes too many options and things get more difficult - there are some men in their 20's who have shied away from physical activity their whole lives so wouldn't be all that strong.

JamesR · **Posted:** Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:30 am

They've got to be S2. They can't be weaker than a Hobbit

Alatar of Rhun · **Posted:** Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:02 am

How about
--F ----S - D - A - W - C pts 3
1/5+ - 2 - 3 - 1 - 1 - 2

Unarmed but if they win an fight and kill there enemy they may pick up 1 hand weapon.

Mapper · **Posted:** Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:21 pm

I agree not worrying about children and women, while they can throw stones and wield a knife, not all women are shieldmaidens.

But I would think the men would have some weapon, an axe for chopping wood, a pitchfork, etc. The problem is they wouldn't be able to wield them effectively or be that skilled in defense. But fighting desperately does add something to the equation.

Will have to play around with it and see what works (or doesn't).

Coenus Scaldingus · **Joined:** Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:14 am **Posts:** 1121

As I would imagine them:

Fight: 2. Hobbit militia are 1, their archers already 2. Unless very young or old, I'd say any normal human would have the same skill as a Halfling archer in melee. (Note that this difference is of course generally meaningless, the vast majority of opponents will have F3+.)
Shooting: 5+ (4+ if imagined to be decent hunters)
Strength: 3. We are talking pre-industrialisation here, those farmers still pack a punch. Remember those scary Vikings? Yeah, they were also mostly farmers. S2 should be reserved for those who spend more time consuming food than producing it.
Defence: 3. Basic unarmoured human.
Wounds/Attack: 1. No explanation needed here.
Courage: Depends on the scenario, 2 is probably okay most of the time. Desperate defenders can go a tad higher (again, even the inexperienced Hobbits are C3).

Equipment: hand weapon or two-handed weapon. I agree that anybody can get their hands on some farm equipment or other tools that are very servicable as weapons. Optional bow.

Hodush · **Posted:** Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:03 am

Just because they are desperate doesn't mean they should get a bonus, people do stupid things when they are in trouble too. And why wouldn't a Warrior of Minas Tirith be desperate? Shouldn't they get a boost as well then? I hope you see what I mean.

If you want to play with villagers, they should be weak, non combatants, otherwise just use ruffians or "village militia". Their 1 attack and 1 wound is what you are looking for really, just enough to slow attackers down but still very vulnerable to being killed.

S3 on normal profiles incorporates weapons too, a fist is not S3, its the sword really. So S1 is perfectly reasonable - you aren't wanting them to fight anyway. If they get a weapon make them S2.

JamesR · **Posted:** Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:15 am

And yet Fatty, Gollum and Cirdan are all unarmed and quite far from "fighting shape" (save Gollum although he's still not in ideal fighting shape ) yet they have greater than strength 1. An unarmed villager should still be at least strength 2, just suffer the usual penalties.

You're correct in the sword plays a large part but simply removing the unarmed penalties is a huge strength boost in and of itself. In a way all weapons give +1 to win the fight and to wound.

Isilduhrr · **Posted:** Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:54 pm

i'm not sure where i remember this from, (the old RotK book) but it said a basic profile for an umarmed or unarmoured man was Str 2 and Df3. Hobbits are courage 3 because of the oft-repeated phrase, regarding the "the outstanding courage of hobbits." it never ceases to amaze Gandalf, eh? the aveage human should be courage 2, again because of the content in the books regarding the weak heart and will of Men. fight value would be 2, better than a Hobbit in their peaceful and secluded Shire, perhaps with a bit of experience keeping away trespassers or wild animals, but obviously less than any trained warrior.

Commissariat · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:31 pm

Coenus Scaldingus and Isilduhrr are pretty on target.

F:2 (Not trained to fight, but they do know how to swing at trees with axes)
S:5+ (Not trained to kill, but to hunt. 5+ instead of 4+ for a number of reasons)
S:3 (Farmers, as has been stated, pack a punch from all that hard labour)
D:3 (Standard unarmoured person)
C:2 (This is also found in a lot of Warriors of Men)
Wargear:
-Improvised farm utensils or swords of the family. (Hand Weapon)

If you want militia troops, use pre-existing Ruffians or shieldless-rohan.

Humans do not have the Hobbit ability to super-throw stones, so no "throw stones ability"

What profile is the best fit for civilians?

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