Hey guys, just saw BotFA and it seems like there has not been a thread on it so far, so here goes:

I did NOT like the movie at all. This is without a doubt the most disappointing thing I've ever witnessed on the big screen. I liked AUJ and DoS to a certain degree, but this is just... Wow bad. Note, my critique includes things bookreaders (like me) would know, but moviegoers just won't understand without the book.

-What is up with Legolas' mother, and why is it an issue?
-Why would PJ be so blasphemous as to have tauriel kiss Kili?
-How does PJ manage to make you feel NOTHING at the deaths of Fili and Kili?
-Does Azog have underwater thrusters and an icebreaker to jump from the water through ice?
-Where does Saruman go?
-What happens to the treasure? What happens with Dain? What happens with Bard? What happens with anyone and anything at the end except Bilbo really?!
-Does anyone in the film care about Thorin's death?
-Does anyone except Tauriel have emotions?
-What's up with those earthworms?
-Is Billy Connoly seriously completely cgi..?
-At what point did Legolas lose his superpowers to become a relatively normal elf in LOTR?
-*sigh* Do we need anymore feminism after Tauriel? (talking about the scene where the women pick up arms, which was not needed at all, but god forbid someone might be offended if women didn't fight in the movie)
-I'm guessing LOTR only had a few trolls because the other 7 million got killed at the BotFA?
-Did Beorns animators die after completing the first second of footage? And after that, did they decide to just go with that footage?
-Etc.

I could go on alot longer, but by now, most of you won't be reading anymore, because tl;dr. PJ has ruined it for me with this one, and my beating childhood heart got stepped on a few times to the point where it almost hurt.("Why does it hurt so much?" -"Because it's real.". OOH COME ON YOU DID NOT JUST RUIN THRANDUIL.)

Dol Guldur was nice, Smaug was ok, everything else, and I do mean EVERYTHING else was a either horrible, or left me completely indifferent.

So in conclusion: I'm really disappointed, and I really had high hopes for this one after the trailers, but this was just... Wow.

*Sigh*

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"Mickey, my friend!"

Funny, I feel the same way and I have not seen this film yet. So far all I have heard, seen and know about I already know that this will ruin the trilogy and pretty much be a complete useless film to watch until maybe, a big maybe, they put some actual tear jerking emotional moments at the end. I don't need a two hour snuff film with zero pay off. Perhaps PJ has been thinking of his horror roots again and decided to make a bloody war film and kicked all character development and plot threads out the window. The other thought is perhaps after changing so many things in the films he forgot what the heck he was doing and gave up and just slapped it all together to finish it off so he could have time to fix it on the EE version.

And I fully expect a tie in film with 4 short stories. one that will have a legolas story (directed by Del Toro), an Aragorn story with Gollum (probably directed by Andy), and a Gandalf story (directed by Peter) and it will use lost footage of this film as well to make a bridge film for the two trilogies. The Legolas, Aragorn and Gandalf short stories could easily be filmed quick (couple months each at most) and a complete aftermath story can be slapped out of what is missing from this film.

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Now this is coming from someone who has not seen the films, but so far critical reviews have been pretty good if not the best of the three prequels so far. Now of course, I wont say critics are everything and I have hated many films that critics loved, but I worry a bit of fanboy mentality has come into play here. You frequently say that PJ has ruined your childhood, and this tells me that you already had a certain way you wanted the film to be done due to you reading the books.....Personally I am going to wait to see the movie to make a decision on whether I like or hate it, but I will certainly keep your list of questions in mind as I watch the movie.

PS: I am not just defending the movie because it is The Hobbit....I hated the DOS ending as much as anyone and saw many pointless scenes that could have been done away with (bolg vs legolas.....). Im just saying I want to watch the movie first before having an opinion

I saw it the other day...

I think the main issue is that it is literally a 2 hour+ action scene with minor story elements just thrown in...and then it completely ignores the battle for lots of minor 1 on 1 fights in the mountains.

In addition to all the questions and points raised above...which I agree on.. .What happened to the thousands of blooming elves! that's what I want to know.

And the constant 'Oh look Alfred is a coward scenes' annoyed me...he should have just been killed or just forgotten about early into the film.

Overall I enjoyed the film...but I found it little more than one huge spectacle with weak story elements thrown in.

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I will make a post once I've gathered my thoughts, I need a few days to let it sink in. But my first impression was that I overall liked it.

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- RIP Fimbul and Narzug -

The benefit of watching all three movies in a row was that I had become entirely used to the stupidly unrealistic and unrealisticly stupid fighting scenes (remember the days when Legolas surfing on a shield was bad..?), and I believe the Star Wars prequels have left me impervious to cringeworthy dialogue (some of which you mentioned).

For starters, I'm looking forward to the Extended Edition. Not only did the second film improve quite a bit with the extra scenes, this time there is quite some stuff we still haven't seen, although it was shown in the trailers. Ram-cavalry, dwarven ballistae, the ram-drawn cart with Dwalin, Balin and another Company member, the large volley shot by the Mirkwood Elves (presumably towards the dwarves).

The first half (or so) was pretty nice, with Dol Guldur, Smaug and the Bard/Thranduil/Thorin motives and politics. The very Battle after which the film was named, however, was simply a mess. Just all kinds of stuff randomly going on, no clear overview, just something that I guess was supposed to be exciting. It just kept going, as did especially two of the duels: Legolas vs Bolg and Thorin vs Azog. Regarding the latter, would there seriously be anybody in this world who did not expect Azog to open his eyes and return? First the debacle in AUJ (oh, of course he'll be dead after his arm was chopped off, yeah, sure...), now again.

Despite the things that seemingly were endless, the film itself went by very quickly - with loads missing from the end. With all the references to LotR, I could see a set-up to Balin's expedition to reclaim Moria: while it wasn't surprising that this was not the case, I hadn't expected to not see Thorin's burial, Dain's coronation, Bard becoming king of a rebuild Dale, Bilbo digging up the trolls' treasure etc. And indeed, what about Beorn? After DoS, I jokingly said there were more shots of Tauriel and Kili staring lovingly at each other than that there were minutes of screentime for Beorn. In this last installment, that genuinely is the case.
On the other hand, we did see Saruman being the cool guy he is, Galadriel getting properly angry, and - although very much unlike the book version (then again, the entire story can be described thusly) - Dain must have had the most dwarflike entrance we've ever seen. Couldn't have chosen a better guy than one with a heavy Scottish accent for that.

If you liked the first films, odds are you'll enjoy this one. If you weren't able to appreciate the previous ones: you'll know what to expect. Some good bits, some terrible bits and plenty of baffling decisions.

I liked the film.

But as outlined above lots of issues.

The battle felt really disjointed and I couldn't believe they didn't have that massive elf army fire a single volley. Why would they cut that?

The earth worms were completey unneccessary. They should have just walked over the hill....

What was with Azog just appearing over the battlefield with his war signals like he had been camped there for days? I felt like they tried to rush the battle and the surprise element and it just made the battle untidy and disjointed.

I was undecided about the initial clash between the armies. I was so excited to see a dwarf shield wall only to have elves jump in over the top (cool too) but again. Why didn't the elves volley fire and the dwarves stick to the shield wall. Would have been cooler (and more natural).

The troll that had stumpy legs was a bit much.

The suicidal troll cracking open the wall - I loved that!

Bard didn't even use the windlance thingy. His broken bow improvised was just plain lame....

So sad for beorn. He got airial dropped straight onto a unit of pikeman (ouch) and thats was it.

Really hoping for big things from the extended edition.

I enjoy the film and will be going to watch it again at the cinema over the weekend (in 3d this time)

Wished they tied in a scence at the end of the credits with Saruman and the palantir or something giving into Sauron.

My post is like the battle of five armies. Disjointed and all over the place.

I thought they milked a lot out of the deaths of fili kili and thorin and it was done well. I didn't mind tauriel kissing him and felt that rounded up that little side plot in a fitting way. Didnt like thranduil at all!

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I haven't seen the film yet (Sunday) but much of what has been said is as I expected. Firstly this won't ruin the book for me, the book is the book and isn't going anywhere while the film/s are someone's vision of the books and the expanded world through a cinematic filter. Secondly I suspect that the extended edition will correct much of the issues and generally improve the film, I feel this has been the case with all of the Hobbit/LOTR films (except for AUJ which could have done with out dwarf skinny dipping and the song and dance routine from Dame Edna).
I'm sure I'll enjoy the movie when I see it, though I'll openly admit I'm sick of Legolas and his unbelievable acrobatics (something that started off as a gag moment and has now been steadily blown out of all proportions with each film - unfortunately if watching the full saga Legolas will suddenly tone down his leaping about, amazing what 60 years can do to an elf) I know I can look forward to the full experience (and hopefully a more complete ending with bridge to LOTR potentially) with the EE later next year.

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That's certainly true, but as I said, I liked the other 2 hobbit movies, even though there were some cringe-worthy moments. But as it turns out, I liked them because I assumed they built up to something epic/tragic. And when those would be tragic moments finally happen, I realized I did not care for these characters at all, after 3 movies. And that makes the other 2 movies a build up to nothing, which is disappointing.

The only thing PJ had to get right for me was Fili-Kili's downfall, Beorn and Thranduil, and he ruined them all in this film.

And to think I was such a thranduil fanboy after DoS.

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"Mickey, my friend!"

By the way did anyone see the Peter Jackson cameo? It's the rumour that he is one of the ringwraiths?

His daughter was in it again, as a citizen of Lake-town.

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- RIP Fimbul and Narzug -

I was completely amazed by this film. It honestly exceeded all my high expectations. Really looking forward to seeing the Extended Cut for even more content and I might go see it again in theatres soon.

I can't imagine any other team having made these films.

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I haven't seen the film but am planning to see it this Sunday. I must admit, AUJ was perfect in my opinion, I don't think those chapters could have been portrayed any better on screen. DOS was appalling! The only segments I enjoyed was Mirkwood (before the barrel-chase), the scenes at Dol Guldur (all of them, even the Thrain extended scene a little bit), and finally Cumberbatch's peerless performance as Smaug. That said, for TBOFA to wow me less than DOS it would have to be a sincerely dreadful film.

I already expect Beorn to be little more than a screen-grab at some point, as if he's a movie mistake that someone in a dark room has spent months trying to find! But seeing as I don't like his film version I'm happy to overlook him. Smaug will inevitably die in the opening scenes, which annoys me. To me, this is the same issue as having Boromir die in the opening chapter of Two Towers - it works on paper but makes no sense in film, and PJ admitted this back in the day, so why has he turned on his word for Smaug in the Hobbit, who is certainly a more prevalent character that Boromir in LOTR? But I am looking forward to all Dol Guldur scenes again, especially with Sir Lee kicking spectral Nazgul ass! I hope we get to see the development of his downfall though, maybe Sauron could show him visions of a world where the two of them claim dominion, like Saruman witnesses through the Palantir in LOTR.

Finally, a rant about Legolas and Tauriel. Imagine if the two characters weren't in the Hobbit... oh wait, they're not, but I'm referring to the films of course. If there was no Legolas or Tauriel, a lot of failings in the films would be avoided =

1 - No need for a second villain (Bolg, Azog), just have one of them
2 - No need for Kili and co. to be stuck in Lake Town still
3 - No need to watch CGI Legolas' circus performances yet again
4 - No need for the Dwarf/Elf love triangle
5 - No need for about two hours (from the whole trilogy) of unnecessary footage which could be better spent focusing on more important characters/scenes = Beorn would have his encounter with Azog/Bolg - although as said earlier I don't like Persbrandt's Beorn. Thranduil would have more screentime - he's better than Legolas and Tauriel combined. And, of course, Smaug would have more screentime - assuming much of his is cut to cram in Elven choreography sequences
6 - MOST IMPORTANTLY - they wouldn't get in the way of the Dwarves and Bilbo. This trilogy was a chance to see some talented actors flesh out identities for the 14 most important characters in one of literature's most beloved books, but this hasn't happened. Freeman is a fantastic Bilbo, but to me he is still outstaged by Gandalf, Legolas, Azog and at times, Tauriel. Thorin has the same problem. This is a great shame because Freeman and Armitage are incredible actors and I want them to really own this trilogy, because they deserve to, but I feel like PJ is clinging too strongly to themes and characters from the LOTR films. Of the 12 other Dwarves, only Balin, Dwalin, Bofur and Kili do/say anything worthwhile, other than that, we just have 8 pointless bearded buffoons rambling alongside them - with Bombur for laughs. In the books, even though most don't speak much, every Dwarf is individual and offers something for the grand quest ahead of them, but in the films, I feel like the few Dwarves I've named above would have fared fine without the others at all.

I've got my fingers and toes crossed that TBOFA will rekindle my love for the franchise, because at some points it truly deserves it, but a lot of the time I end up disappointed and I know a lot of others on here feel the same. As much as I didn't like whining Frodo in the LOTR trilogy, I still sympathised with him at the end of the journey, I felt his pain as he climbed Mount Doom, and Sam's sickening sorrow when he sees Frodo succumb to the ring just as Isildur had many years before, and when he departs into the west at the close of the film, I even shed a tear (I was only 9 ). But with The Hobbit, I don't care about the characters. Thorin doesn't deserve sympathy in death, and neither do Kili or Fili because I haven't spent time knowing them as characters. Fili could die off-screen and I wouldn't even notice. But anyway, like I said, my fingers and toes are crossed that I will enjoy TBOFA. Despite all this moaning I am looking forward to it with an open mind, the dynamics of the battle and the encounter between Sauron and the White Council will be interesting to watch unfold on-screen, and I'd like to know how it ends too. I wonder if Balin (my favourite Dwarf in-book and on-film) makes it to Bag-End for a little catch-up with Bilbo at the end. That would be nice. To be honest, if that scene is still in it, the rest of the film can just be a montage of Legolas' greatest hits and I'd still give it five stars!

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Wise Old Elf

Well that was exactly my mindset upon entering the theater...

But I hope you enjoy it alot more!

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"Mickey, my friend!"

Removing Tauriel and Legolas would certainly help the movie, as there are many awkward or pointless to the plot scenes that involved those two in the DOS

Well, you are not going to get a "major motion picture" funded nowadays without some sort of female presence and without a relationship subplot. The distributors forced the larger role for Arwen in the original trilogy, for example.

There's a very good reason for this: women, especially younger women, go to the movies more than guys, and more reliably. While people can and do make "bloke movies" they are not given massive budgets and don't generate billion dollar returns. That the Hobbit films are basically very expensive theme park extravaganzas, you're going to want every single bum on every single seat you can get your hands on. So if you absolutely must pad out a 200 odd page book into nine hours of film, a love story is probably mandatory.

Which isn't a bad thing either. This is Middle-earth, which already has a bunch of butt-kicking female characters elsewhere, so you can easily slide one in to the nine hour mega story. She's a bit awkward, but not terrible either, but that's down to the writing and acting than the character's presence.

But in a film with attack goats and jumping mountains and toilet humour, she's likely the least problematic interpolation.

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I watched the film this morning:

i actually quite enjoyed it, imo the best of this trilogy, in the other 2 films I really liked the spiders, gollum, azog and bolg.

back on topic:

the good bits for me:
I was so happy to see fili get stabbed, same goes for his brother!
Headbutt troll old fotr cave troll design, that was really cool.
Dain
Thorins sortie was rather epic
I found the pace of the film quite upbeat and energetic
I liked the compromise pj took with bards broken bow, though using bain as his stabiliser was really weird
dwarves of the iron hills phalanx
goblin mercenaries... blatantly from goblin town just with armour
small armoured trolls
High decapitation count

the WTF bits
-Azog on Ice... which leads to why on earth is there a frozen lake atop a hill plateau... is that even possible
-The necromancer scene, completely ott, did anyone ever feel a genuine sense of threat here, the only threat I felt was if I looked at that dodgy gif style animation I would end up having an epileptic fit
-Legolas killing Bolg...WTF, also how does legy defy gravity, with that "I'm walking on air" moment(s)
-I really wanted Bolg to viciously murder Tauriel, thinking game of thrones style here
-Azog should have defiled fili, call me French but decapitation never gets old
- Doesn't Bombur die in the book?
-Where is the ending? seriously does Pj not give a Devlan Mud about the few actually likeable characters in the films. Dain needs a crown, Bard deserves that gold, also a coronation. the company?
-Azog's death anticlimactic
-Necromancer fleeing, anticlimactic
-Were' worms?
-where did those conveniently heavily armoured mountain goats come from
- no benefit to having dwarves in esgaroth especially just to allow them to casually leave
How are trolls not extinct from this battle, I saw more trolls here than in minas tirith siege

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@Grungehog
Bombur does not die in the book, however some of the other dwarves die in the Rankin Bass animation version of The Hobbit.

The mountain goats were ridden by Iron Hills captains(my guess), only four IIRC. You can see them briefly from afar in one scene happening right after Dain arrives.

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- RIP Fimbul and Narzug -

I did enjoy old bolg for what few seconds we saw of him

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Just back from it now. Pretty exhausting. Didn't let up much. It was what I expected, after the previous two. At this stage I'm only voyeuristically interested. They're not great films. It's hard to call them films at all, they're only episodes. Still think the cast and the bulk of the design are great. Pity there was such an abundance of CGI, but I'm a big fan of the 48FPS presentation. If you're gonna go CGI, this is the way to do it. All in all, I spent most of the film thinking what potential models could be. 6/10

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Good comments Gene, agree with you pretty much but would give it 8/10 compared to the last 2, but not in the league of the LOTR films.
I did enjoy it but tend to find myself looking at the colours of outfits and potential scenery making ideas.

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