Anyone else disappointed by BOTFA profiles?

JamesR · **Posted:** Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:14 pm

So having read through the newest supplement I was really disappointed with the new profiles. The troops are fine IMO but several of the heroes really missed the mark. That's not to say that they are not accurate representations within the context of the third Hobbit movie but rather the game at large.

1. Legolas being F7.
I understand why he needs to be F7 as Bolg is also and even in DOS they are painted as nemesis, but to outclass Aragorn seems way off to me.

2. Thranduil having 4 attacks.
Thranders isn't the only new profile to have 4 attacks, but it seems the least appropriate. In the LOTR line only the Golden King (who is infact 3 characters), has this many attacks outside of a few monsters.

3. Elrond
I have less of a problem with this one but that free heroic strike is too good. They should have just made him F8 because Elrond is not Gil-galad's equal in combat, but with this he'll equal or outdo Gil-galad 66% of the time.

Those are definitely my top 3 complaints about the new profiles

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:26 pm

I'm disappointed that the Bowman doesn't have a bow, rules and model wise. Can't say anymore than that, haven't gone over the rest, but it's great on GW's part to throw us a bone to get interested in the game.

Oldman Willow · **Posted:** Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:42 pm

I'm disappointed that this is the best GW can come up with. :sad:

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:06 pm

Really? Really?! These profiles are fantastic.

A lot of them have been designed with scenarios in mind and they are all pretty well (if not over) costed. Apart from Dwalin maybe, none of them will break the game.

Massive Kudos to Simon Grant on these, he has smashed them, the new galadriel and Saruman profiles are beast.

Bernardo · **Joined:** Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:38 pm **Posts:** 117

I love the new profiles too!
Thranduil has become a super beast, but lost his 2 spells.
So I don't think he is broken. You'll not easily kill him.
But hell, he is a 130 pt model. He is supposed to be good.

I am a great fan of all the new profiles.

Erestar · **Joined:** Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:18 pm **Posts:** 90

JamesR wrote:

So having read through the newest supplement I was really disappointed with the new profiles. The troops are fine IMO but several of the heroes really missed the mark. That's not to say that they are not accurate representations within the context of the third Hobbit movie but rather the game at large.

1. Legolas being F7.
I understand why he needs to be F7 as Bolg is also and even in DOS they are painted as nemesis, but to outclass Aragorn seems way off to me.

2. Thranduil having 4 attacks.
Thranders isn't the only new profile to have 4 attacks, but it seems the least appropriate. In the LOTR line only the Golden King (who is infact 3 characters), has this many attacks outside of a few monsters.

3. Elrond
I have less of a problem with this one but that free heroic strike is too good. They should have just made him F8 because Elrond is not Gil-galad's equal in combat, but with this he'll equal or outdo Gil-galad 66% of the time.

Those are definitely my top 3 complaints about the new profiles

I'm told, when you see the movie, you'll understand why he gets four attacks.

Not to mention an extra for every model that outnumbers him in combat. Pretty sure that includes spear support too.

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:01 pm

He won't get extra attacks from spear support. GW already ruled in the FAQ that for Tauriel/ Mirkwood rangers only models in base contact give extra attacks.

JamesR · **Posted:** Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:02 pm

Again I'm not saying the profiles poorly represent the characters in the movie, but rather when compared to the rest of the range

Erestar · **Joined:** Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:18 pm **Posts:** 90

SouthernDunedain wrote:

He won't get extra attacks from spear support. GW already ruled in the FAQ that for Tauriel/ Mirkwood rangers only models in base contact give extra attacks.

It's poorly worded in the supplement, as I believe it says 'for all enemies he is in combat with.'

As for the whole range, perhaps, though I'm a firm believer than boosting almost all new orcs to strength four was a mistake. I feel this is a ripple effect. With stronger enemies comes the need for stronger and stronger heroes.

Mind you if you look at the mirkwood armoured elves compared to Thranduil, he's their gem, so to speak, as apart from the defence 5 shield elves, the others are very squishy. You'd think that armour, as extensive it is, would bump them to five, but alas. I'm one of the people who thinks the High elves are badly represented with base 5 defence, but we know they won't make wood elves sturdier than they are, so... next to zero chance of them getting an update.

I could just be blinded by the excitement of the new model, but I like the idea that he's potent in combat. After all, he's lost his spells, which means transfix, or Bolg (Ancient enemies) and you've got a pretty decent chance of shutting him down.

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:22 pm

Erestar, the rule is worded the same as Tauriel and the Rangers from the DoS book so I think it is pretty clear now that GW have FAQ'd it.

ColinHiggins · **Joined:** Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:59 pm **Posts:** 13

The vast majority of the new profiles are fantastic, particularly the alternative ones. Legolas for example, becomes a much better fighter, but loses his elven cloak which was always a major bonus for him. Bard is a fantastic lake town leader, but has lost his shooting ability. Thranduil loses his circlet of kings but becomes a beast in combat. So I think the profiles are all really well designed; while most heroes become a lot more powerful, the lose an ability they already had to compensate. Even the dwarves; all increase in defence but can no longer take ponys. Ori loses his slingshot but gains an extra attack. It really makes you think about not only which model to take, but which version of the model.

Except Saruman. Who is now resistant to magic. And re-rolls cast rolls. And resist rolls. And 4+ sorcerous blast. Very scary. Much Wow. Amaze

Oldman Willow · **Posted:** Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:24 pm

SouthernDunedain wrote:

Really? Really?! These profiles are fantastic.

A lot of them have been designed with scenarios in mind and they are all pretty well (if not over) costed. Apart from Dwalin maybe, none of them will break the game.

Massive Kudos to Simon Grant on these, he has smashed them, the new galadriel and Saruman profiles are beast.

The profiles are not going to break the game should be the lowest common denominator. The scenarios are a waste of time. They are worse than the last supplement. Overall a disappointment. It took a year to come up with this :shock:

Harfoot · **Posted:** Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:36 pm

I am pleased with the book as a free item, if i had to pay i would be thinking differently.

When i look back through my old MERP books at depth and quality you realise what a different league they are in. Even the old LOTR GW source books are fantastic.

Isilduhrr · **Posted:** Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:14 am

I honestly think only the very best heroes and monsters should be fight 7 or higher. It's extraordinarily irritating to have 3 or 4 new Fight 7 heroes, when old Legolas, Aragorn, Boromir etc, the best warriors of their time, are only fight 6.
On a related note, I hate that last year's Palace Guard are Fight 6 as standard. I get that they maybe spent a thousand years practicing, whereas Aragorn spent decades, but i hate that Mega-heroes have to Heroic Strike to beat a standard trooper.

Grungehog · **Posted:** Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:18 am

i don't think having legolas buff to F7 A3 and able to wield orcrist is a very good idea, the fact remains he is an archer, and yeah he shouldn't be able to beat gorn in a draw.
Thranders is a bargain but yet again seems ott

Apart from that I'm satisfied with the new profiles, I would as far as saying I love them

legion · **Joined:** Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:58 pm **Posts:** 205

I personally think this is an amazing supplement! I love the new rules and I think GW is doing an excellent job getting away from the normal approach which is to just give them a stat line and leave. I love every model in this supplement

JamesR · **Posted:** Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:24 am

legion wrote:

I love the new rules and I think GW is doing an excellent job getting away from the normal approach which is to just give them a stat line and leave. I love every model in this supplement

how is this one any different in that way than ALL the others that came before?

jdizzy001 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:28 am

I am in awe of the new profiles. Bard was the only one I saw to be in line with past profiles. Tauriel at less than 90 pts has 3+ atks, 3 might, 2 will, and 3 fate. That is a lot for a hero with a cost less than 100.

My next question, what happened to legolas which caused his fight value to drop from 7 to 6 between the hobbit and fotr?

Erestar · **Joined:** Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:18 pm **Posts:** 90

Isilduhrr wrote:

I honestly think only the very best heroes and monsters should be fight 7 or higher. It's extraordinarily irritating to have 3 or 4 new Fight 7 heroes, when old Legolas, Aragorn, Boromir etc, the best warriors of their time, are only fight 6.
On a related note, I hate that last year's Palace Guard are Fight 6 as standard. I get that they maybe spent a thousand years practicing, whereas Aragorn spent decades, but i hate that Mega-heroes have to Heroic Strike to beat a standard trooper.

Nothing standard about an Elven royal guard. It's the nature of the Elves for them to have high fight and in theory, would be/should be more skillful than any mortal warrior.

Yet not more heroic, hence the lack of might/will/fate/special rules.

NarsilReforged · **Joined:** Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:13 am **Posts:** 316

I like the new models and profiles but do think that quite a few are unreasonable and some possibly op. These being: Thorin, Dwalin, Legolas, Thranduil, Galadriel, Elrond, maybe even Saruman.
Thorin's free heroic combat is outrageous for a model of his cost. Dwalin's main weakness used to be his defence, he is now amazing with his high defence and extra attack and might. Legolas should not be fv7 but 3 attacks is not too bad. Thranduil should not be fv7. Galadriel is beast at spells, combat and has some amazing special rules for a very low cost. Elrond gets a free strike per turn for only 10 points... Saruman's "Lord of the Istari" has the potential to be op.

Anyone else disappointed by BOTFA profiles?

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