oops i did mean durin
he really is a great asset to a dwarf force and adds the extra attacks that dwarves mainly lack due to spear support which is more noticable in the higher point games, i think captains and iron guard really are needed in the dwarf force for this reason moreso than alot of armies

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generalship is easy just point your troops to the war

Another note of Mardin, his "sworn protector" rule with Durin means your 'Stand Fast!' range goes up considerably, making it much easier to hold onto the army when things get rough.

The dragons "firebreath" is it effective as killing machine?

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You may have triumph on the battlefield for one day, but against the power that rises from the east, there is no victory.

Easterling King, I promise we'll be discussing the Dragon very soon . But I would like to give the Goblins a slightly longer opportunity to be discussed even though no one seems to be jumping at the chance . Aren't there any Goblin players or any Evil players who would like to comment on the Goblins?

I have to admit that I'm not a big Goblin fan myself. But here are a few of my thoughts on the Prowlers. These seem to be a great bargain. For two more points than a regular Goblin you get improved FV, shooting, throwing weapons and the Backstab ability. That makes them better than a regular Orc for only 1 point more than a regular Orc. The Backstab ability would be very useful against the high defense of the Dwarves. The improved shoot value makes their throwing weapons a decent attack.

I personally would arm a lot of them with shields and have lots of them spread throughout a Goblin army. But then the problem is you would have to spend a lot of money on the metal figures and spend time converting them. At least the conversion should be easy if you have extra plastic Goblins lying around.

GW also posted some Dwarf and Goblin tunnel fighting tactics here:
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/lotr ... efault.htm

Any comments on these?

I second these points. They are certainly worth their points and it is annoying that there are only 3 poses available - you have to field an army of clones. Backstab is a brilliant ability because it suits the goblins well - A large force of goblins is almost certain to surround a force of dwarves eventually and because of backstab, you prowlers would then be able to take up the frontline against the dwarves and hopefully make some headway.

@ Awcho - You've done an excellent job at hosting so far - keep it up (Kudos for trying to spark off the goblin debate )

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Brush licking is for better painters.

As an upgarded Goblin I think the Prowlers are great, but don't get them just for the chance to use thier special ability. A recent game of mine had my Woodland Realm (mostly WE with a few Galadhrim) facing Moria. My oponent had Durburz, a Cave Troll, two captains, some Prowlers, two Bat Swarms and the rest Goblins. I was outnumbered about 2:1.

I know the risk of being surrounded already and adding Prowlers into that equation makes for some very terrible thoughts. So I was even more cautious than normal when it came to positioning of models each turn. While a force of Dwarves (5" move) is probably a lot more susceptible to being surrounded than a force of Elves or Men, the fact was that I was generally able to use Zones of Control and spread my lines enough where I prevented a surround situation for most of the game. Between throwing daggers, the higher Fight value of the Elves, picking my battles whenever possible, and supporting often w/ a WE with Spear, I managed to win most of the Fights and disrupt my opponent's chances of surrounding.

Not to say that Prowlers aren't a good option, but they're not exaclty "Beserkers for Moria" as I once heared. Remember that with the slower move of the Goblins, you really need to concentrate your forces and overwhelm your enemy in order to spill thru his ranks and let your Prowlers shine. I suggest keeping them in the third rank for this reason (Goblins often seem to loose thier first rank right away) or keep them near Heroes to participate in the sudden surprise of Heroic actions.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Thanks, josephaghababa! It really helps that you and everyone else have been contributing some great discussions!


Beowulf, this is excellent how you describe your experience against the Prowlers by describing the tactics you used to prevent them from using their special ability and their numbers advantage. Theory is great, but experience is better (especially in war)!

i absolutely love the new prowlers, they are great for their points basically the equivalent of a normal rohirrim with throwing spear but 2 points cheaper plus the backstabbers rule free. The throwing wepaons are a great addition to the moria force and i could be tempted to convert a good few more of my goblins into prowlers.

The great thing about the prowlers is the psychological effect on your opponent the last 2 people i've played using my new prowlers have done some stupid things like splitting their forces when they shouldn't have to try and stop being trapped.

The prowlers other real strength is in their versatility with the options to 2 handed weapons, bows and shields they can be anything from shock troops, line holders, bowmen or your general elites.

The prowlers maybe great in the numbers of goblins but i wouldn't be surprised if people get converting (or have lots of money) to see mainly prowler based armies that can go toe to toe with the human armies especially.

On the dwellers below it is not my favourite theme as i hate not being able to ally with moria, which is stupid as this is meant to represent holds everywhere what happens if it was one in the misty mountains that joined up with a moria raiding force?

My new goblin army still happens to have the spiders and wargs that characterise this dwellers below list as you can just ally with dol guldur instead to get the troops you want and for 5 pts extra (orc shaman over a goblin shaman) you can add them in easily.

lol looks like i got carried away

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generalship is easy just point your troops to the war

Great info regarding the Prowlers. I wasn't aware of some of the extra options available to them. My opponent had them armed with 2H weapons to really kick up the kill potential.

Also, since the official models were not yet available (arriving at the store the night of the game) he did some conversions. Normal plastic goblins were given some facial covers with GS, spears were converted to wicked looking 2H weapons w/ some styrene card, etc. I actually liked the conversions better than some of the official poses.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Thanks for the hands on experience Beowulf and further info from Gundalf7.

I think that their versitility is what makes them great - the prowlers can be suited to many different battlefield roles.

I think it is a shame that they can't be armed with bows or spears so specialise them further.

I suppose another use for prowlers would be in Kill Teams. Along with a cheap goblin captain, they could easily destroy lone heroes and small bands of warriors. Any thoughts on this?

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Brush licking is for better painters.

Actually, not giving them the option for bow / spear does specialize them more I believe. They are put right into the role of a deadly melee warrior fitting thier description. Spears and bows would allow some to stand back and that's for lesser Goblins.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

The new prowlers are basically the equivalent of a normal rohirrim with throwing spear but 2 points cheaper plus the backstabbers rule free....

huge sigh....IMO we have here another example where the Evil warriors are much less points than the Good warrior equivalents...

and tell me why the dwarf ballista (44 points minus crew) is more points than the isengard ballista (41 points minus crew) but is less effective and has less batter points? Also because it has the accurate rule it is actually worse because it is easier for your opponent to spread all his models 3" apart (so that it needs to get a 6 or the shot misses completely) than 6" apart. Also remember all good models may not shoot if there is any chance of scattering onto friendly models....this gives evil shooters more flexibility and makes it more difficult to use Good siege weapons

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Wellington NZ

i dono but it seems rather wierd


Coud it be c'se the good archers are have better accuarcy? that the people on GW is thinking that the good archers COUD neutralise the evils siege mashines?or ballistas?

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Famous words from Sauron
1.(breath sounds)
2.(breath sounds)
3.(Breath sounds)
the conclution is
He's retarded:D:D

yeah games workshops new modles are now cheaper in points than you would think

i mean the warriors of arnor are the same as gondor warriors with spears except 1 point less

however these new warriors of evil (the prowlers) are only able to get there ability if they hae the modle traped.

as for why the ballista costs more, Games workshop mess up perhapes






p.s. I'm shocked beond beleif that ive had the luck to have starcraft the original release on my birthday, and starcraft two announced on my middle school gradguation

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

Please new topic?!
i donno if anyone is agreeing whit me but i want to discuss Mordor Armys

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Famous words from Sauron
1.(breath sounds)
2.(breath sounds)
3.(Breath sounds)
the conclution is
He's retarded:D:D

Great topic so far, lots of good stuff to think about, and a great job by our host, awcho!

Goblin Tactics

In general, I do not see any major tactical changes for Goblins (at least not until we get to the Dragon!). They will still rely on large numbers vs. elite troops. The addition of the Prowlers is a welcome troop addition which will increase the chances for wounding hard nuts like Dwarves, but they will still need to swarm the enemy to have a chance at winning fights.

I have finally had a chance to use Bat Swarms in combat and I think that they add an edge to the Moria Army list, giving Goblins a great tactical edge when dealing with big Heroes.. I'll definately be adding a few to my Army.

While I don't pretend to understand how the point values for troops are arrived at, I do think that there are quite a few factors involved. Goblins have less advantages overall, making up the difference in sheer numbers. Not having the rulebook in front of me, I can think of two differences off the top of my head... movement and courage. Goblins have one less inch of movement (and as we have already discussed when discussing Dwarves one inch is a big difference) then Humans. Goblins have one less courage than the average Human as well. Small differences, but important.

And in case you didn't know...
Patience young kjellman!

We have changed the format for the CTD. Now everyone can host a topic. Here is what you do if you would like to host a topic about Mordor Armies...

1. Go to the HOST/TOPIC LIST- Continuous Tactical Discussion thread.

2. Read through the first post for information about the role of host as well as posting tips.

3. Sign up in the HOST/TOPIC LIST- Continuous Tactical Discussion thread (or send me a PM) to host the topic.

That's it! Your name and topic will be added to the list and you will be notified when your term for host comes up. If you decide that you would like to have that topic, but don't want to host, let me know and I will do my best to find a host for the topic.

Back to work...

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Curunír
Please visit My Gallery

I had not noticed that the Dwellers Below cannot ally with Moria . It does seem counterintuitive. It would be nice to be able to add Wild Wargs or Spiders to a Moria Army for speed or a little extra "bite" since Goblins are slow. As allies the Dwellers Below seem to be a way to add some fast units, or cave trolls or cheap Goblins to armies that don't have access to them like the Black Gate or Barad-Dur. It's a little strange that they don't have Giant Bats. But it is nice you can have the Warg Chieftain.

THE DRAGON
And now the time has come! DRAGONS have come to Middle-Earth!



At least they are being released in the U.S. this weekend. So let's talk about the Dragon. Which of the special abilities would you use? How would you keep the Dragon from fleeing the battle with its Survival Instinct? How would you seek to slay a Dragon if you are unfortunate enough to face one???

If anyone has had any experience with a Dragon please write about it

Okay! Since no one has made any comments about the Dragon, I'll try to get things started by commenting on the Survival Instinct.

This is a really big Achilles' heel for such a costly monster. The Dragon's courage means that it will flee if it rolls a 5 or less on a Courage Test if it is wounded. If you're a player that rolls important Courage Tests as poorly as I do, then those are dangerous odds to roll (Thranduil the Elven King failed three Courage Tests in one game I played). Even if the Dragon has 7 wounds (or 9 wounds if upgraded), rolling multiple Courage Tests means that the odds are relatively high for the Dragon to flee before it loses all of its wounds. Watching your 350 point beast run away after taking 1 or 2 wounds would probably be very unpleasant!

But it's not all bad. The Dragon can be upgraded to a Def of 9 which should significantly decrease the odds of being wounded especially by lucky arrows and heroes. Furthermore, the Dragon has 3 Fate. That means the first time the Dragon is hit (and maybe even the 2nd and 3rd time) the Dragon has a chance of escaping the wound and thus avoiding the Courage Test.

Another strategy might be to use the Flying upgrade to pick your fights and hopefully keep the Dragon out of trouble. Or you could try using Firebreathing to take out the most dangerous enemy from a distance. Finally, if all else fails you can try to save some Will to boost a failed Courage Test. I've forgotten this rule more than once, but if it can keep your Dragon in the fight for an extra turn or two it could potentially turn the tide of the battle.

Any thoughts?

Survival Instinct is really a disadvantage. That is why I give my Dragon tough hide. And since my Dragon has wings, I have to give him fly.
I think that these two upgrades are the best. If you want to give him Wyrmtonque, pay 5 points more and take a Nazgul instead. And you can use Breath Fire only 3 times in a game and in my opinion thats not worth its pointcost. But if you know that your opponent will use a Balrog or a Mumak, it is worth it to take Breath Fire. With this you can finish both beast, and if you target the Mumaks howdah everything on it, with a single shot.