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 Post subject: Revising the Rohirrim.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:40 pm 
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Well, I think it's a fair statement to say that the Rohirrim are underpowered compared to most other armies. Boasting little Fv4 and no S4 Warriors, all the Eorlingas really have going for them (stat-wise) is the widespread use of throwing spears and the "Expert Rider" special rule, which isn't all that special. To properly honour these valiant Northmen, I have put together a set of profiles to more accurately represent their prowess. This is VERY much a work in progress, and any and all input will be appreciated!


Theoden Ednew, the Renewed Points Value: 115

After being healed by Gandalf Greyhame and shaking off Saruman's influence, King Theoden of Rohan was called "Ednew" by the people of the Riddermark. Meaning "The Renewed" in the tongue of the Eorlingas, this epithet was most fitting for Thengel's son as he soon rode to victory and glory at the Battles of Helm's Deep and the Pelennor Fields. Though Theoden fell in the latter battle, his courage and uncanny resilience was ever after the stuff of legends in all corners of Rohan.

F/Sh S D A W C
5/4+ 4 7 3 2 6

M:3
W:2
F:2

Theoden Ednew wears heavy armour and carries his sword Herugrim and a shield. He may bear the following equipment at the cost indicated:

Snowmane.....15pts
Rohirrim Spear......5pts

Snowmane: Snowmane is an armoured Mearas. His profile is exactly like that of Felarof. See Eorl's profile for details.

Rohirrim spear: The Riders of Rohan use their spears as both javelins and lances while on horseback. On foot, these weapons count as normal throwing weapons. On horseback a charging Rider may either throw their spear (in which case it counts as a throwing weapon) or use it as a lance. Note that the weapon confers no bonus if the mounted model is charged instead.

Forth, Eorlingas! Once per game, Theoden may call a charge. When he does so, all mounted Rohirrim on the board may make a full move straight forward and any models in the way take a Strength 4 hit. Survivors are knocked to the ground. Models with Rohirrim spears must use them as lances for the duration of this move.


Eomer, Third Marshal of the Riddermark Points Value: 125

Theoden's nephew and heir to the throne after Theodred's death, Eomer is a skilled and brave leader of Men. Although once removed from Theoden's service and jailed under the advice of the treacherous Grima Wormtongue, Eomer fought valiantly at the battles of the Hornburg and Pelennor Fields, forging a strong bond between himself and the future King Elessar.

F/Sh S D A W C
6/4+ 4 6 3 3 6

M:3
W:3
F:3

Eomer wears heavy armour and carries a sword. He may bear the following equipment at the cost indicated:

Firefoot.....15pts
Rohirrim Spear......5pts
Shield......5pts

Firefoot: Firefoot is a Mearas descended from Felarof, the legendary horse of Eorl the Young. His profile is exactly like that of Shadowfax. See Gandalf's profile for details.

Rohirrim spear: The Riders of Rohan use their spears as both javelins and lances while on horseback. On foot, these weapons count as normal throwing weapons. On horseback a charging Rider may either throw their spear (in which case it counts as a throwing weapon) or use it as a lance. Note that the weapon confers no bonus if the mounted model is charged instead.

Now for Wrath, Now for Ruin! Whenever Eomer uses a Might point to call a Heroic Action, roll a D6. On a 4 or higher, Eomer makes the Action without depleting his Might store.


Elfhelm, Marshal of the East-Mark Points Value: 80

A skilled leader among the Rohirrim, Elfhelm nominally leads the Muster of Edoras. He fought at the Battles of the Fords of Isen and defended Theodred when the prince was mortally wounded. While not as strong as Grimbold or as accomplished as Erkenbrand, Elfhelm made a name for himself during the Battle of Pelennor Fields and afterwards, striking out against and destroying Sauron's forces in Anorien.

F/Sh S D A W C
5/4+ 4 7 2 2 5

M:3
W:2
F:2

Elfhelm wears heavy armour and carries a sword and shield. He may bear the following equipment at the cost indicated:

Horse of Rohan.....15pts
Rohirrim Spear......5pts

Horse of Rohan: The Rohirrim are accounted to be the best horse-breeders and tamers in all of Middle-earth, so much so that their horses are coveted even by Sauron's agents. A horse of Rohan has the following profile:
F S D A W C
0 4 4 0 1 3
In addition, the "loose mounts" rule always applies to horses of Rohan who have lost their riders.

Rohirrim spear: The Riders of Rohan use their spears as both javelins and lances while on horseback. On foot, these weapons count as normal throwing weapons. On horseback a charging Rider may either throw their spear (in which case it counts as a throwing weapon) or use it as a lance. Note that the weapon confers no bonus if the mounted model is charged instead.


Grimbold of Grimslade Points Value: 70

A mighty commander of Rohan's forces, Grimbold won much recognition for defending the body of his prince, Theodred, from Saruman's forces during the Battles of the Fords of Isen.

F/Sh S D A W C
5/4+ 5 6 2 2 4

M:3
W:2
F:1

Grimbold wears heavy armour and carries a sword. He may bear the following equipment at the cost indicated:

Horse of Rohan.....15pts
Rohirrim Spear......5pts
Shield......5pts

Horse of Rohan: The Rohirrim are accounted to be the best horse-breeders and tamers in all of Middle-earth, so much so that their horses are coveted even by Sauron's agents. A horse of Rohan has the following profile:
F S D A W C
0 4 4 0 1 3
In addition, the "loose mounts" rule always applies to horses of Rohan who have lost their riders.

Rohirrim spear: The Riders of Rohan use their spears as both javelins and lances while on horseback. On foot, these weapons count as normal throwing weapons. On horseback a charging Rider may either throw their spear (in which case it counts as a throwing weapon) or use it as a lance. Note that the weapon confers no bonus if the mounted model is charged instead.

Doughty Grimbold Grimbold's strength is an inspiration to those who are beleaguered. When fighting on foot, all Warriors of Rohan, Rohan Royal Guard, and Rohan Outriders within 6" of Grimbold get +1 to their Fight Values.

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:55 pm 
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I agree that rohan is underpowered. Think of it this way-- The men of minas tirith (who were quite plentiful) had trouble fighting off a bunch of orcs while 300 untrained men of rohan were able to fight off 10000 uruk hai...

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:11 am 
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wows, very nice!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:55 am 
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morgothsapprentice wrote:
I agree that rohan is underpowered. Think of it this way-- The men of minas tirith (who were quite plentiful) had trouble fighting off a bunch of orcs while 300 untrained men of rohan were able to fight off 10000 uruk hai...


Your flaw in that statement is that Minas Tirith had to fight off about 10x the number that the rohirrim did.

@Hurin, these look like some pretty solid stats - however why is Grimbolg's stat line weaker than Elfhelm when you clearly state in Elfhelm's bio that the former is the more adept of the 2? It sounds like Grimbolg should take the higher level stats whereas Elfhelm takes the lower cost stats. Hope that makes sense.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:48 am 
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Thanks all, and to answer your question, Haldir_Strikes, I've always thought that Elfhelm was the better *commander* whereas Grimbold was something of a blunt instrument. Elfhelm was (as far as I understand from the phrase "in charge of the muster of Edoras") an officer in the RRG and a well-established leader and warrior. Grimbold was more like Erkenbrand's lieutenant, in charge while the latter was away. Grimbold was only given such high rank (Third Marshal of the Mark "in function, though not title") after his valiant defence of Theodred's body. Furthermore, his description as "doughty" really implied physical strength to me and I chose to factor that into the bonus he confers: his soldiers are emboldened by their Captain's own strength.

The other differences in the profiles are Defence and Fate. The former is because I gave Grimbold the option of a shield instead of it being included. The latter is because, in the story, Grimbold died while Elfhelm survived.

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:51 am 
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Ahhh I see, carry on then :)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:39 pm 
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Quote:
Well, I think it's a fair statement to say that the Rohirrim are underpowered
...

Have to agree, but I think it's a problem with the way the game is structured. It's based on the movies, where we see Gondorian warriors stupidly shooting at steel towers instead of the trolls, where Faramir charges across the plain ... against nothing..., where Uruk hai outclass humans...

If the game were based on the book, Uruk hai would be amazing because they had actually (barely) achieved the level of humans (combat-wise). The rules would reflect the fact that nearly always, Good is heavily outnumbered by Evil, but they could handle it. Your basic man (Harad, Easterling) was equal to 3 goblins or 2 orcs. The Rohirrim were a notch above that, the Gondorians a notch above *them* and the Numenorians capped them all. Then there's the Elves and Dwarves...

Sorry for the rant... Nice Work!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:50 pm 
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Hmm...a fair point indeed, Whafrog. However, it wouldn't work that way in the context of a minis game I don't think. Who would play Evil if you could get a Good force of the same point value for a third the cost?

Because we KNOW that GW doesn't account for points values in their pricing, which is why in 40K 100-ish points of Orks cost the same amount of $$$ as nearly 200 worth of Marines.

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:45 pm 
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I agree with your opinion that Rohan is a bit underpowered.
Because of the low Strength sometimes, not many Fight Values 4+ and not many armour or really good horses I don't (re)start with Rohan.

I think it is a more tactical army, for the more tactical or experienced player in the game.[/url]
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:41 pm 
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I completely agree, Talking Troll. High strength is something that ALL Good forces are lacking in. Look at Evil: you can ally Morannon Orcs or Isengard/Mordor Uruks with just about any army to get that added punch. The ONLY Good troops with S4 are both Dwarven: the Iron and Khazad Guard.

So, with Rohan there's an opportunity to rectify this AND make it fit with the books: their horses. The literature clearly states that the Rohirrim were the best horse breeders in Middle-earth (although this is possibly because the Elves tend not to use horses as widely) and I think that using the Horse of Rohan profile for ALL Rohan models would be an improvement. They would, of course, only have the advantage while mounted, which would further reinforce the image of their rider culture.

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:55 am 
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Lord Hurin wrote:
I completely agree, Talking Troll. High strength is something that ALL Good forces are lacking in. Look at Evil: you can ally Morannon Orcs or Isengard/Mordor Uruks with just about any army to get that added punch. The ONLY Good troops with S4 are both Dwarven: the Iron and Khazad Guard.

So, with Rohan there's an opportunity to rectify this AND make it fit with the books: their horses. The literature clearly states that the Rohirrim were the best horse breeders in Middle-earth (although this is possibly because the Elves tend not to use horses as widely) and I think that using the Horse of Rohan profile for ALL Rohan models would be an improvement. They would, of course, only have the advantage while mounted, which would further reinforce the image of their rider culture.


that is a brilliant idea! and I also think some improvements should be made to the Rohirrim themselves, they were well trained warriors in the books. They were stated to be better trained and armed than both the Haradrim and the Dunlandings but in the game they are just as badly trained and armed

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:25 am 
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I love your rules upgrades. The only suggestions I would make would be to confir the Horses of Rohan special rule to the Mearas as well. No reason they should run away automatically either.

I would also consider adding a special rule to Theoden to extend his SF to 12" like many of the other "Royal" heroes.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:40 pm 
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Yes I should have the Mearas stay on the field, but with the additional rule that only a Hero of Fv 6 or higher may mount him? I don't know...something to ensure that a normal Rider or even a Captain can't ride Shadowfax or Snowmane.

As for Theoden, I think I'll have a rule that extends his Stand Fast! by 6" for Rohirrim units only. Perhaps I'll also make profiles for Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli to reflect their equipment and stats at the Battle of the Hornburg and give them special rules to that state they are Heroes of Rohan (much like Merry's Knight of the Mark profile.)

Also, I should make the horses 10 points, as usual.

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:58 pm 
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With the Mearas rule, I think you should make it the hero has to win a turn of combat against him too, after charging him, and the person with priority gets to move him
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:32 am 
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Hmm. I've been repainting my Eomer for the third time now and this got me thinking about his stats.

You all probably remember the epic moment in the movie, where he takes out two mumaks by killing the Mahud Chieftain on one of them. Then later he shouts out instructions to his warriors on how to harm the giant animals. Thus, I think it would be appropriate to give him an additional skill:

Mumak slayer
Every time Eomer shoots/throws a spear at an object in the Howdah, once per game he can choose to hit that object automatically, without rolling any dice to determine whether he missed or hit an obstacle etc.
Also, any model within 14 cm of Eomer that is firing at the Mumak, gets a +1 bonus to wound (since he tells them where the sweet spots are). This does NOT apply to the howdah, or the models inside it. Only if the Mumak is hit, does this rule take force.


P.S. I'm not sure whether to make this an upgrade for additional cost, or a built-in ability with increased overall cost of the hero. On one hand, in this game analogous abilities are typically built into the profiles. On the other, I don't want to increase Eomer's cost by giving him a very specific ability. That way people would pay for something they wouldn't use (unless everyone in your area plays for Harad and has Mumakil). I'd much appreciate any ideas as to a solution of this problem.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:20 am 
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rohan royal guard revised so that they actually kill something

F S D A W C
4/3+ 4 6 1 2 4

15 points for a royal guard

a rohan royal guard wear heavy armour and bears a shield. they are also armed with a sword and throwing spears he may take these addtional items at the stated cost

horse 5pts
bow 1pt

special rule: bodyguard see rulebook for details



rohan outrider

F S D A W C Might: 1
4/3+ 4 5 1 1 5 will:
fate: 1

cost 20 points

a rohan outrider wears finely crafted light armour and has a sword he may be given these following items at the addtional cost

horse: 5 points
rohirim long bow ( counts as elven bow) 2 points


special rules: rohan outriders are of excepitonal skill in riding and marks manship they are even better than riding than there fellow eorlingas therefore rohan outriders when mounted travel through difficult terrain at 2/3rds of their movement phase so 18cm


expert rider special rule: the eorlingas are the lords of all horses there skill is unmatched even by the magnificent elves. the rohirm are adept at fighting on horse back as they are on foot. all rohirim no matter what model ( even grima) move 28cm instead of 24. they also have a permant +1 attack even when they didnt charge ( this is because the rohirim know how to correctly use their horses




so there u go some stuff off the top of my head itll need some work of course
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 Post subject: Wow!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:53 pm 
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Wow these are brilliant ideas guys! :yay:

Now that Rohan have got fair stats all we need to do is make the game fair for everyone else, LETS REWRITE THE RULEBOOK!! :lol:

When I next play a game I'll have to convince my friend that it's only fair that Rohan get to use these stats!! :twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:33 am 
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on my stat for the royal guard its meant to be 2 attacks and 1 wound not the toehr way around woopsies also maybe another unit like rangers?

rohan ranger
F/S S D A W C
4 3+ 3 4 1 1 3

8 Points

they are equipped with light armour a sword and a longbow
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:48 am 
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I honestly think that only a couple of changes are need to bring Rohan up to par. Examples:

-Boost for Theoden (focus: leadership) and for Eomer (focus: combat)
-Allow Rohirrim to use Throwing Spears as either Lances or Throwing Spears each turn (mounted only for Lances obv.)
-AND/OR +1FV for Expert Riders on charge.

Keep current points for RoR the same so that it still allows a viable all-Cav army, or at most a +1pt boost. Make horse an extra point for RRG to represent them making very good use of Expert Rider. Fix the Banner of Rohan glitch. Done. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:28 am 
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Some very interesting ideas there everyone. I'd like to see the Horselords revamped but as GW ramp up the stats with every new supplemental release in an ever increasing spiral - like they do in WH and 40K - they will soon become mediocre again as the evil players bemoan their forces have become too weak in comparison. Some of the newer armies out there are so over-powered and have moved too far away from the books and even the films for my liking.

I think the whole rulebook needs to be revisited and stats rejigged to fit in more with the film at least, and more hopefully the books. A lot of the one-off abilities that have been introduced for some of the "lesser" races need to be removed. I know they were put in to balance the game but I'd rather see, for example, loads of orcs versus a handful of Gondorians being a fair fight - like mentioned above a Gondorian being worth 2-3 orcs for example.

Just my tuppence worth.
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