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 Post subject: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:14 pm 
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Same defense and hitting power as Aragorn w/ Anduril, just 50 pts cheaper---and able to fly and restore wounds with few bites of human. What's not to like? Looks great on paper...anyone actually used him?

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:50 pm 
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I played against him...Em one question...How do you connected Anduril with him... Anyway it looks strong but low courage man....
Low courage, and when left with 1 wound it's unlikely to win a fight. Anyway if you force is not broken and you keep his wounds high(at least two and even that's is hard) it's good.
Hope I helped... 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:52 pm 
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He's easy to shoot. Screen him with a bat swarm to harass behind the lines...
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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 7:22 am 
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So Bat Swarm as a sort of flying Shadow Lord against arrows? But it is only a screen, right? The 'blinding swarm' rule doesn't really blind, just halve the fight value of an enemy in base contact. Looking at the model, there is quite a gap to shoot through...so would it be a regular 'in the way' roll, same as a goblin standing in front? I can see the advantage of a fellow flyer, hanging out with Gulavhar. Am I missing any other advantages to these two together?

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Last edited by fritskuhntm on Sat May 21, 2011 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 7:38 am 
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Ultragreek wrote:
I played against him...Em one question...How do you connected Anduril with him... Anyway it looks strong but low courage man....
Low courage, and when left with 1 wound it's unlikely to win a fight. Anyway if you force is not broken and you keep his wounds high(at least two and even that's is hard) it's good.
Hope I helped... 8)

So how did you kill Gulavhar? Battle report link? What mistakes did he make?

Anduril hits on 4+, and so does S8 (up until D9, anyway). Courage; right. Won't be charging many Elf Lords, even at full strength. And I will need to pair him with a 28 cm Stand Fast hero (Suladan or Durbitz...any others?)---or glue another hero to him so he doesn't wimp out when the army breaks...which it will quickly with the numbers left over from his 200 pt cost. What else?

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:01 am 
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Ok, Ok wait...too many questions.
1:I didn't kill him,he fled for low courage...
2: I haven't write a battle report about this battle...(If you want tell me and i will write it :wink: )
3: The mistakes are known to the user( Okay he charged many of my warriors and i was of course sending help...)
4: Ok right one for the Anduril( Aragorn would slay him)
5: ABout the hero part...I don't know.
That's all i have to say... Hope this helpes you. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:58 am 
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Fritskuhntm wrote:
And I will need to pair him with a 28 cm Stand Fast hero (Suladan or Durbitz...any others?)---or glue another hero to him so he doesn't wimp out when the army breaks...which it will quickly with the numbers left over from his 200 pt cost. What else?

Gulavhar is a Hero and Stand Fast doesn't affect other Heroes, pairing up with something won't do anything unless that someone is Saruman the White (good) who is the only character in the game with the rule which says that his Stand Fast affects other heroes... but then again you can't have him with Gulavhar.

About 2 goblins vs 1 bat swarm for protection - Gulavhar's model is positioned on a stone, the size of which is bigger than a goblin as far as I remember. Now according to the rules you have to have the 'body' of the model obscured (and body means body of the creature with the exclusion of its tail. The stone is not part of the body and therefore cannot be taken for in the way - neither can someone's base). Therefore only a Bat Swarm and bigger creatures (and I'm not sure of Warg Riders here, don't remember the exact size of Gulavhar) can provide protection from arrows for Gulli.

Gulavhar has one really stupid thing about him - he's *only* F6. Paying 200 pts for a character that can't beat 130pt Glorfindel and draws with a bunch of other heroes around 100-150 mark (and even Elf captains below 100!) puts you in a seriously difficult spot because it makes Gulavhar unable to move and charge freely in games of the size of 500+. His special rule about A=W=C is also horrendous, but can be taken care of if you're playing well. The downside of the rule is that you can never regain more than 1 Wound per turn, no matter how many enemies you killed or wounds caused.

Then the fact that he's 200, or 2/5 of a 500pt force means that you're not really getting much else useful in there except maxing out on Goblins or Orcs, so you're relying heavily on him, he can easily be taken out and even if he isn't, he will flee soon after your army breaks.

In summary Gulavhar is pretty bad in game terms, even though he might look amazing on paper. Still, try him out, he works if paired up with a Ringwraith immobilising big heroes or with a Spider Queen for additional killing power (you could play Gulavhar, Spider Queen, Orc Drummer, 20 Morannon Orcs and 20 Orc Spearmen and it would be a pretty strong list at 600pts, yet still one that would be having troubles beating Elves). In the end this game is all about heroes anyway because the player who kills enemy heroes sooner than the other and then breaks the army will win majority of the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:45 pm 
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I've killed him twice both times with elven heroes, Rumil especially!
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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 4:02 pm 
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Two times with Rumil? :o The world's end...
:P :P :P

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 7:02 pm 
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I killed him with a swarm of infantry which included Gaurds of the Galadhrim Court. (read F6 for 12 pts!)

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 6:36 am 
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Ok...

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:08 am 
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About 2 goblins vs 1 bat swarm for protection - Gulavhar's model is positioned on a stone, the size of which is bigger than a goblin as far as I remember. Now according to the rules you have to have the 'body' of the model obscured (and body means body of the creature with the exclusion of its tail. The stone is not part of the body and therefore cannot be taken for in the way - neither can someone's base). Therefore only a Bat Swarm and bigger creatures (and I'm not sure of Warg Riders here, don't remember the exact size of Gulavhar) can provide protection from arrows for Gulli.


I thought a goblin could stand in front of a cave troll to make "in the way" for arrows--even though the cave troll's torso is not obscured... If the rock Gulavhar stands on will cancel that out...(same for Warg PackLord model?) ...that is huge. Can't screen him from arrows except with Bat Swarm.

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:18 am 
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Yes, Goblin can stand in front of a Cave Troll and provide In the Way. I didn't say that Gulavhar's torso has to be obscured, but his 'body' - and according to the rules that's head + limbs + torso. Stones don't count as part of the body, neither do tailes, neither does any equipment. Therefore the model of Gulavhar barely gets any protection in terms of ITW. It is exactly the same with Fell Beasts - their tail is ignored and their body is positioned about 3" or 4" above the ground, so no basic models provide cover for them (unless you convert them that is, but usually the model's original height and position is taken, plus conversion of the metal FB takes ages... unlike the new plastic which you could have positioned on the base itself as if landed and get your ITW rolls perfectly well - it's all about how the body of the model is positioned - but then again, don't try going over the top because people will not accept it).

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:17 am 
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Fritskuhntm wrote:
About 2 goblins vs 1 bat swarm for protection - Gulavhar's model is positioned on a stone, the size of which is bigger than a goblin as far as I remember. Now according to the rules you have to have the 'body' of the model obscured (and body means body of the creature with the exclusion of its tail. The stone is not part of the body and therefore cannot be taken for in the way - neither can someone's base). Therefore only a Bat Swarm and bigger creatures (and I'm not sure of Warg Riders here, don't remember the exact size of Gulavhar) can provide protection from arrows for Gulli.


The other reason is the bat swarm can keep up. You aren't tied down by 5" moving goblins, so you can make a break for a flank and still get cover.

BlackMist wrote:
Gulavhar has one really stupid thing about him - he's *only* F6.


That's the third reason for the bat swarm. If he's alone I'd rather send Gulavhar after infantry, but with a bat swarm he beats anyone. Still, I can't say that always works out :) and it means he's effectively a 235 point model...with lots of wounds...
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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:20 am 
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BlackMist wrote:
Gulavhar has one really stupid thing about him - he's *only* F6. Paying 200 pts for a character that can't beat 130pt Glorfindel and draws with a bunch of other heroes around 100-150 mark (and even Elf captains below 100!) puts you in a seriously difficult spot because it makes Gulavhar unable to move and charge freely in games of the size of 500+. His special rule about A=W=C is also horrendous, but can be taken care of if you're playing well. The downside of the rule is that you can never regain more than 1 Wound per turn, no matter how many enemies you killed or wounds caused.


"ONLY F6"? Not bad for a character who shouldn't even be in the game. Gulavhar has got to be one of my least favourite things that GW made up; not only does he have no basis in M-e, but something like a giant bloodsucking vampiric pseudo-Balrog fighting Aragorn's dad is something that would've gotten a large mention. At least the vast majority of armies that GW have created troops for were under-developed enough in the books to make it believable.

/Rant. Sorry, all.

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:46 am 
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Lord Hurin wrote:
"ONLY F6"? Not bad for a character who shouldn't even be in the game. Gulavhar has got to be one of my least favourite things that GW made up; not only does he have no basis in M-e, but something like a giant bloodsucking vampiric pseudo-Balrog fighting Aragorn's dad is something that would've gotten a large mention. At least the vast majority of armies that GW have created troops for were under-developed enough in the books to make it believable.


True, the chronological timing is poor, but I thought they might have modeled it on Thuringwethil, a vampire of Morgoth in the first age, so I haven't minded it.
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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:00 am 
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whafrog wrote:
True, the chronological timing is poor, but I thought they might have modeled it on Thuringwethil, a vampire of Morgoth in the first age, so I haven't minded it.


For First Age games I have no problem with it at all, in fact I'd find him a hell of a lot of fun to use, no doubt. Just GW's absolute disregard for the source material in this instance doesn't appeal to me at all. Perhaps it's just me being bitter, but I can imagine them sitting around saying "so, should we transplant something from the Vampire Counts line into LotR so we can sell a bunch of people another 50 dollar miniature??"

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:11 pm 
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Converting tin sounds hard, and risky---and the prospect of some Tournement Nazi saying, "Oh, no...absolutely not!" sours my soul. Looks like Bat Swarm is my only option (short of returning Gulhavar unopened, which I've considered). With all these faults though, he could be fun to play, if I'm careful... This has been fascinating guys; thanks. I had not guessed that Fight Value was so important. I can't see a way around that Courage problem, except to keep Guli fully charged---with C4 he stands a chance, anyway. Picking easy fights is not what I had in mind for a 200 pt hero, though. Killed by a 70 pt elf...that is hard. New respect for Rumil, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:47 am 
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Here's a question about Bat Swarms: LoME lists their cost as 20 pts for the Dol Guldur and Moria army lists; does this take precedent over the points cost listed for them in Fall of the Necromancer and Khazad-dum? Wouldn't that help Gulli out (a bit)?

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 Post subject: Re: Gulavhar Terror of Arnor advice needed
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:39 am 
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No, all sourcebooks are newer than LoME, so they take precedence.
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