The whole Elves and Dwarves situation

orc-archer · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:40 pm

Why are the Elves and the Dwarves not on very friendly terms? My lack of knowledge concerning this is rather slim, which means I'm turning to you guys for help!

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

As I remmber the elves led to the extinct of one of the eight "races" of the dwarves and also they had a war at the first age...

Telchar · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:52 pm

When the first Dwarves came into Beleriand, the Elves didn't realize they were speaking creatures, but thought they were animals, and hunted them. Later, that was amended, but a treacherous group of Dwarf smiths slew Elu Thingol (King of the Sindar) for possession of the Necklace of the Dwarves, which he had taken from the Halls of Finrod. Then they were exterminated by Thingols son Dior Eluchil and a group of Ents. But I personally think that they mainly are just too different to be on friendly terms, as the only Elves who preferred metallurgy to woods and nature, the Noldor, are the only ones to constantly be on a friendly foot with the Dwarves.

Sorry for being a total LOTR nerd.

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:58 pm

I vaguely remember the details of that, but I thought that battle of the Dwarves vs. Elves/Ents was over a Simiril? Anyone remember what story specifically it's from? I can't even recall where I read it before, but now that I'm thinking about it it would make a cool theme for an old Elf army and scenario.

WayUnderTheMountain · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:46 pm

Beowulf03809 wrote:

I vaguely remember the details of that, but I thought that battle of the Dwarves vs. Elves/Ents was over a Simiril?

I thought it was along the lines of the Dwarves killing Thingol for not paying them for the necklace they made that had a Silmaril in it and then elves executing dwarves. Then the dwarves marched on Doriath and then after kicking some elf butt getting rick-rolled in a sudden ambush by elves and ents.... Or something like that?

Don't forget the Wood Elf King Thranduil locked up Thorin and Company for no real reason beyond trepassing and being dwarves. Also being hunted by elves might make the Dwarves more than a little peeved at them.

That and lets face it, Elves can be arrogant, aloof and girly while Dwarves are grouchy, pragmatic and manly. :rofl:

Amarthadan · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:48 pm

Yes the dwarves murdered Thingol over that necklace, and Thingol may have been one of the most important elves (if not the most important.) in middle earth ever. So it only makes sense they don't like eachother. And as stated before, they are just too different.

Most dwarves were quite savage while only a few were 'civilized' enough for a good contact with the elves. The only elf that really favoured the dwarves over other elves was Eol, and he wasn't exactly the happy kind of elf.

Read the Silmarillion, you won't regret it.

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:54 pm

Amarthadan wrote:

Read the Silmarillion, you won't regret it.

That's one I need to pick up again. I read it back in high school, a couple years after first reading LotR, and didn't appreciate it enough at the time. I have only read segments now and again since then, though I've reread the four core books many times over the last 25+ years since then. Even so my last time going into the Simarillion was sometime between when RotK film was released and I started to play SBG...

I'm 2/3 thru a re-read of TTT right now. When I finish up RotK I'll see about dusting off my Simarillion again.

Amarthadan · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm

Personally I think The Silmarillion is Tolkien's best work. It's just so epic.

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

It explains a lot :yay:

Sticky Fingersss · **Joined:** Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:20 am **Posts:** 1776

Quote:

Sorry for being a total LOTR nerd.

I think thats the whole point of this forum

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

100% correct

Telchar · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:38 pm

Sticky Fingersss wrote:

Quote:

Sorry for being a total LOTR nerd.

I think thats the whole point of this forum

I love this forum!

Draugluin · **Posted:** Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:12 pm

1. There were only 7 dwarf kins, Hilbert.
2. The Necklace had a Silmaril in it, so the dwarves were stealing a Silmaril.
3. Dior Eluchil was Thingol's grandson.
4. Beren was the one who recovered it.
5. The dwarves not only killed Thingol, but also slaughtered most everybody in Doriath.
6. The only dwarves who actually were nice to outsiders were Durin's Folk, and they got along VERY well with the Noldorin elves (so much so that the password to get into there capital was elvish for "friend") until their kingdom was destroy and they were scattered.
7. You should never say sorry for being a nerd.

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

There were seven clans: Longbeards,Firebeards,Broadbeamsn,Ironfists,Stiffbeards,Blacklocks,Stonefoots...
But there was an 8th group who got extinct... The Petty-dwarves

I forgot that they were exciled dwarves from every clan. :oops:

Telchar · **Posted:** Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:21 pm

Draugluin wrote:

1. There were only 7 dwarf kins, Hilbert.
2. The Necklace had a Silmaril in it, so the dwarves were stealing a Silmaril.
3. Dior Eluchil was Thingol's grandson.
4. Beren was the one who recovered it.
5. The dwarves not only killed Thingol, but also slaughtered most everybody in Doriath.
6. The only dwarves who actually were nice to outsiders were Durin's Folk, and they got along VERY well with the Noldorin elves (so much so that the password to get into there capital was elvish for "friend") until their kingdom was destroy and they were scattered.
7. You should never say sorry for being a nerd.

3 Oops, sorry :oops:

.
5 No, the first group of Dwarves killed Thingol, and then most got killed, and after that a few fled and roused the main Dwarf cities (Belegost and the other whose name I have forgot), which sent an army to extract revenge, and killed most of Doriath.
6 But the Noldor are very much like Dwarves. And they got on so well with the Dwarves of Beleriand that the last carved Finrod Felagund (Khuzdul for "cave-hewer") his dwelling in Nargothrond.
7 I won't do it again.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:22 am

Telchar wrote:

Draugluin wrote:

1. There were only 7 dwarf kins, Hilbert.
2. The Necklace had a Silmaril in it, so the dwarves were stealing a Silmaril.
3. Dior Eluchil was Thingol's grandson.
4. Beren was the one who recovered it.
5. The dwarves not only killed Thingol, but also slaughtered most everybody in Doriath.
6. The only dwarves who actually were nice to outsiders were Durin's Folk, and they got along VERY well with the Noldorin elves (so much so that the password to get into there capital was elvish for "friend") until their kingdom was destroy and they were scattered.
7. You should never say sorry for being a nerd.

3 Oops, sorry :oops:

.
5 No, the first group of Dwarves killed Thingol, and then most got killed, and after that a few fled and roused the main Dwarf cities (Belegost and the other whose name I have forgot), which sent an army to extract revenge, and killed most of Doriath.
6 But the Noldor are very much like Dwarves. And they got on so well with the Dwarves of Beleriand that the last carved Finrod Felagund (Khuzdul for "cave-hewer") his dwelling in Nargothrond.
7 I won't do it again.

5. Exactly, but it was still an army of dwarves, thus me saying "the dwarves not only killed Thingol, but also slaughtered most everybody in Doriath" is still true.
6. I don't think you realize that we are in agreeance.
7. Good.

Telchar · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:17 pm

Draugluin wrote:

Telchar wrote:

Draugluin wrote:

1. There were only 7 dwarf kins, Hilbert.
2. The Necklace had a Silmaril in it, so the dwarves were stealing a Silmaril.
3. Dior Eluchil was Thingol's grandson.
4. Beren was the one who recovered it.
5. The dwarves not only killed Thingol, but also slaughtered most everybody in Doriath.
6. The only dwarves who actually were nice to outsiders were Durin's Folk, and they got along VERY well with the Noldorin elves (so much so that the password to get into there capital was elvish for "friend") until their kingdom was destroy and they were scattered.
7. You should never say sorry for being a nerd.

3 Oops, sorry :oops:

.
5 No, the first group of Dwarves killed Thingol, and then most got killed, and after that a few fled and roused the main Dwarf cities (Belegost and the other whose name I have forgot), which sent an army to extract revenge, and killed most of Doriath.
6 But the Noldor are very much like Dwarves. And they got on so well with the Dwarves of Beleriand that the last carved Finrod Felagund (Khuzdul for "cave-hewer") his dwelling in Nargothrond.
7 I won't do it again.

5. Exactly, but it was still an army of dwarves, thus me saying "the dwarves not only killed Thingol, but also slaughtered most everybody in Doriath" is still true.
6. I don't think you realize that we are in agreeance.
7. Good.

5. But you implied that it was the same Dwarves that slew Thingol and razed Doriath, while they were different.
6. We're not, in fact

. You say the only Dwarves friendly to outsiders were Durin's Folk of Moria, but I say that the Dwarves of Belegost (and the other one) were friendly as well.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:18 pm

5. No I did not. I said "The dwarves" as a race.
6. I would find it doubtful that Durin's Folk were ONLY in Khazad-Dum. I'm pretty sure that the dwarves of Belegost were of Durin's Folk.

Telchar · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:04 pm

Then we have a misunderstanding

.
I always thought each of the main Dwarf People's built their own city, and (nearly) only Dwarves of their people lived their, but I'm not sure.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:57 pm

I was always under the impression that the dwarves of the Blue Mountains were members of Durin's Folk.

The whole Elves and Dwarves situation

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