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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:22 am 
Craftsman
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VonGadsen wrote:
still no beornings i'm guessing? :(

Nothing new besides the minis that came out today. A few stat/cost changes here and there (troll chieftain came down in points haha) and a few upgrades, but that's all.

Besides, Beornings will be a hobbit release, surely...

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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:21 am 
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Raukov wrote:
VonGadsen wrote:
still no beornings i'm guessing? :(

Nothing new besides the minis that came out today. A few stat/cost changes here and there (troll chieftain came down in points haha) and a few upgrades, but that's all.

Besides, Beornings will be a hobbit release, surely...


Hopefully .... but who knows? its GW....
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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:06 am 
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My thoughts on:

Isenguard:

Nothing has changed... Which is a bad thing. I can NOT believe they forgot to make a profile for the urk drummer. I would not care if it was a carbon copy of the black guard drummer or any other, just show the inniative and get the profile out instead of making grey areas! Honestly it wouldn't have been such a sore spot... If they didn't make the drummer as the 4th unit in the urk command box. That's just insulting!

Rohan:

Warriors of Westfold upgrade? Yes please! These have hit the spot with my Rohan army. I don't mind that the majority of my army still loses automatically on a 6, just the fact that my riders can cause a tie is unbelieveable. :puppy:

Outriders: I really feel heartbroken over this one. 13 points = platic rohan rider (box of 6 for $35) 13 points = metal Outrider (set of 1 for $35). When they lost their fate point and immunity from the bow limit they really lost their magic with me. Now that I own 4, I really don't want to ever consider picking another one up. A rider of Rohan honestly sits better with me at that point cost than an Outrider with a bonus to courage and bow skill. Give Outriders a unique ability if your going to make them, if not, I'm fine without them. They are supposed to be superior riders than a normal soldier, so why are they priced the same? Something like bieng able to go full speed and still shoot would be welcome. It would introduce a new tactical aspect to them that isn't available elsewhere. Heck, go back to charging 15 points for it and I'd still love em! Just don't take my money and leave me heartbroken :sad:

King's Hunstsman: I'm not real crazy about the execution of this model, but it fills an odd hole. What happens when you have all your warbands maxed out, but you still have points to spend? Well, this model fits the bill. Question is, will he see enough action to be worth his points? I find that once the shield walls clash, good archers really can't do much good rather than fill holes left by defeated allies, as good models can't pepper into combat. I guess I will paint him up and see.

Eomer: New special rule for the pellenor fields version, kinda seems a little excessive. It was fine the way it was in my opinion. If you wanted it, you had to invest in theoden or Eowyn. Now you get it whenever you win priority? Yikes. The more I think about it, the more I feel this version is overpowered. Time will tell.

Hama: Why does everyone hate Hama so much? I didn't expect him to get any love, but I still don't know why he was stripped of his fate point. Yes he died. So did most other evil and good hero's but they still have fate points. What gives?

Overall Opinion: good. The warriors of Westfield are a much welcome addition. I would be suprised if Erky ever loses his front row seat in this battlefield now.

War Bands:

We played 2 games today, 800 points a side, kill em all style. First game was over in 5 turns (starting the clock from the first casualty) second went for quite a while (erky crossing swords with a king's champ gone evil :shock: for about 10 turns). Overall I am pleased. SBG 400 point games took about the same amount of time as the warband 800 ones, give or take. With the heavier reliance on hero's I feel I am aforded much more flaxibility within my army. It was a good thing 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:27 pm 
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What the hell is up with the deployment zones in the new scenarios? No minimum distance between the two forces and very little reason to use the back of the board at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Raukov wrote:
What the hell is up with the deployment zones in the new scenarios? No minimum distance between the two forces and very little reason to use the back of the board at all.


In fairness the first 5 turns of the games usually involved your army walking forward and getting shot whilst the opponents archers moved back. I think shooting is a little less harsh now with the ability to start so close, but will still play an important part.

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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Raukov wrote:
VonGadsen wrote:
still no beornings i'm guessing? :(

Nothing new besides the minis that came out today. A few stat/cost changes here and there (troll chieftain came down in points haha) and a few upgrades, but that's all.

Besides, Beornings will be a hobbit release, surely...


The Troll Chieftain has NOT come down in points at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Battalia wrote:
My thoughts on:

Isenguard:

Nothing has changed... Which is a bad thing. I can NOT believe they forgot to make a profile for the urk drummer. I would not care if it was a carbon copy of the black guard drummer or any other, just show the inniative and get the profile out instead of making grey areas! Honestly it wouldn't have been such a sore spot... If they didn't make the drummer as the 4th unit in the urk command box. That's just insulting!


This is just incompetent, theres no excuse for it. GW's just released an Uruk Hai Scout Drummer model, but no rules? Someone in GW should be getting a reprimand.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat750003a&prodId=prod1460151a

Battalia wrote:
Rohan:

Warriors of Westfold upgrade? Yes please! These have hit the spot with my Rohan army. I don't mind that the majority of my army still loses automatically on a 6, just the fact that my riders can cause a tie is unbelieveable. :puppy:


Does this apply to Warriors of Rohan infantry or just Riders?

Battalia wrote:
Outriders: I really feel heartbroken over this one. 13 points = platic rohan rider (box of 6 for $35) 13 points = metal Outrider (set of 1 for $35). When they lost their fate point and immunity from the bow limit they really lost their magic with me. Now that I own 4, I really don't want to ever consider picking another one up. A rider of Rohan honestly sits better with me at that point cost than an Outrider with a bonus to courage and bow skill. Give Outriders a unique ability if your going to make them, if not, I'm fine without them. They are supposed to be superior riders than a normal soldier, so why are they priced the same? Something like bieng able to go full speed and still shoot would be welcome. It would introduce a new tactical aspect to them that isn't available elsewhere. Heck, go back to charging 15 points for it and I'd still love em! Just don't take my money and leave me heartbroken :sad:


GW shooting itself in the foot again...If they make the rules for a model so broken and naff, then fewer people will want them and GW's sales for that model will fall. Don't they ever think things through properly?

And yes they should have the ability to move 10" and still shoot. (I was going to suggest that myself actually then read this paragraph a second time and realised you'd beaten me to it). So, 3+ shoot and 10" move & shoot, but with D4 and no shield to balance them out etc.

Battalia wrote:
King's Hunstsman: I'm not real crazy about the execution of this model, but it fills an odd hole. What happens when you have all your warbands maxed out, but you still have points to spend? Well, this model fits the bill. Question is, will he see enough action to be worth his points? I find that once the shield walls clash, good archers really can't do much good rather than fill holes left by defeated allies, as good models can't pepper into combat. I guess I will paint him up and see.
.

I agree its an odd looking model.The way I try to use my good archers is to get them into difficult terrain on the flanks such as woods, or up on high ground. And then I snipe and skirmish with them, targeting spear support, banners, etc or any enemy models trying to get around / flank my own shield wall (I play mostly Gondor and use mostly Rangers).

Battalia wrote:
War Bands:

We played 2 games today, 800 points a side, kill em all style. First game was over in 5 turns (starting the clock from the first casualty) second went for quite a while (erky crossing swords with a king's champ gone evil :shock: for about 10 turns). Overall I am pleased. SBG 400 point games took about the same amount of time as the warband 800 ones, give or take. With the heavier reliance on hero's I feel I am aforded much more flaxibility within my army. It was a good thing 8)


I rather like the sound of the requirement to take more heroes, but then I've always been more of a narrative driven player who values theme above all else, than a competitive player.

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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:41 pm 
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King Ondoher wrote:
Battalia wrote:Rohan:

Warriors of Westfold upgrade? Yes please! These have hit the spot with my Rohan army. I don't mind that the majority of my army still loses automatically on a 6, just the fact that my riders can cause a tie is unbelieveable. :puppy:



Does this apply to Warriors of Rohan infantry or just Riders?


Just for riders of rohan are able to be upgraded to riders of westfold for 1 point each. The one thing I do like is they can be from any warband. So Eomer's RoR can be upgraded so long as erky is in the army :puppy:
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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:18 am 
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Battalia wrote:
King Ondoher wrote:
Battalia wrote:Rohan:

Warriors of Westfold upgrade? Yes please! These have hit the spot with my Rohan army. I don't mind that the majority of my army still loses automatically on a 6, just the fact that my riders can cause a tie is unbelieveable. :puppy:



Does this apply to Warriors of Rohan infantry or just Riders?


Just for riders of rohan are able to be upgraded to riders of westfold for 1 point each. The one thing I do like is they can be from any warband. So Eomer's RoR can be upgraded so long as erky is in the army :puppy:


The question is whether making an already rather overpriced (dang those obligatory bows...) D5 model another point more expensive is worth it... for just 2 points more you get a Royal Guard, which is both D6 and passes all courage tests while their hero lives. Once the 33% bow limit is reached, I imagine RGs are a better investment than upgraded RoR.
Regardless of this, though, Erkenbrand surely is a must have now, firstly because he is very cost effective (insifignificantly more expensive than a far inferior Captain and much cheaper than mildly more powerful Éomer) and secondly because of his horn - C5 warriors and C6-7 heroes? Yes please!

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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:57 am 
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Zogash wrote:
Battalia wrote:
King Ondoher wrote:
Battalia wrote:Rohan:

Warriors of Westfold upgrade? Yes please! These have hit the spot with my Rohan army. I don't mind that the majority of my army still loses automatically on a 6, just the fact that my riders can cause a tie is unbelieveable. :puppy:



Does this apply to Warriors of Rohan infantry or just Riders?


Just for riders of rohan are able to be upgraded to riders of westfold for 1 point each. The one thing I do like is they can be from any warband. So Eomer's RoR can be upgraded so long as erky is in the army :puppy:


The question is whether making an already rather overpriced (dang those obligatory bows...) D5 model another point more expensive is worth it... for just 2 points more you get a Royal Guard, which is both D6 and passes all courage tests while their hero lives. Once the 33% bow limit is reached, I imagine RGs are a better investment than upgraded RoR.
Regardless of this, though, Erkenbrand surely is a must have now, firstly because he is very cost effective (insifignificantly more expensive than a far inferior Captain and much cheaper than mildly more powerful Éomer) and secondly because of his horn - C5 warriors and C6-7 heroes? Yes please!


Very good and solid points. On paper. I just can't afford the cash to buy that many RRG's, or the heart to proxy that many units.

Also keep in mind that a S4 urk will wound a D5 RoR on a 5+ and a D6 RRG on a 5+ so there is a time and a place to RRG it and to pull out the Riders of Westfold 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:06 am 
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GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
The Troll Chieftain has NOT come down in points at all.


My bad, I thought he was 150 before for some reason

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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:21 am 
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Battalia wrote:
Rohan:

Warriors of Westfold upgrade? Yes please! These have hit the spot with my Rohan army. I don't mind that the majority of my army still loses automatically on a 6, just the fact that my riders can cause a tie is unbelieveable. :puppy:


Excuse my ignorance but I've been out of the hobby for a while (about 5 or 6 years). What are Warriors of Westfold?
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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:11 am 
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emre43 wrote:
Battalia wrote:
Rohan:

Warriors of Westfold upgrade? Yes please! These have hit the spot with my Rohan army. I don't mind that the majority of my army still loses automatically on a 6, just the fact that my riders can cause a tie is unbelieveable. :puppy:


Excuse my ignorance but I've been out of the hobby for a while (about 5 or 6 years). What are Warriors of Westfold?


The warriors of the Westfold are the guys that Erkenbrand and Gandalf bring to relieve the Hornburg at teh battle of Helmsdeep.
In the new army books Erkenbrand can increase the fight value of Riders of Rohan to make them Westfold Redshields.

Also Grimbold can make S4 foot warriors :D
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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Being a mostly Evil army player I keep wondering why Good got special rules for the Fellwoship and White Council, and Evil didn't get anything for the Nazgul. Some rule that would let them be in a warband together.
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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Lorizael wrote:
emre43 wrote:
Battalia wrote:
Rohan:

Warriors of Westfold upgrade? Yes please! These have hit the spot with my Rohan army. I don't mind that the majority of my army still loses automatically on a 6, just the fact that my riders can cause a tie is unbelieveable. :puppy:


Excuse my ignorance but I've been out of the hobby for a while (about 5 or 6 years). What are Warriors of Westfold?


The warriors of the Westfold are the guys that Erkenbrand and Gandalf bring to relieve the Hornburg at teh battle of Helmsdeep.
In the new army books Erkenbrand can increase the fight value of Riders of Rohan to make them Westfold Redshields.

Also Grimbold can make S4 foot warriors :D


Ah right, thanks, presumably only those in his warband?
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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:54 pm 
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No. You may upgrade any number of warriors in your army once you have bought the leaders capable of doing the upgrade. So Grimbold can upgrade Warriors of Rohan into Helmingas in Theoden's warband for example
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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:38 pm 
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Battalia wrote:
No. You may upgrade any number of warriors in your army once you have bought the leaders capable of doing the upgrade. So Grimbold can upgrade Warriors of Rohan into Helmingas in Theoden's warband for example


Ok cheers.
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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:18 pm 
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Just got the new books, have mixed feelings. I thought Bill the Pony's Second Breakfast rule was hilarious and well done. I like Gildor's upgrade options, and I get why they started with Wood Elves, so they'd be unarmoured. Khandish chariots are F4 at least, though probably still overpriced. Mahud took a beating (waaa!), but blowpipes are better. I like that the High Elf Stormcaller has Strengthen Will instead of Nature's Wrath. Erkenbrand's rule change is interesting, high time Rohan had that option.

But a lot of it seemed to be half-thought. For example: you can upgrade Rangers of Gondor to Rangers of Ithilien, who have no movement penalty in the woods. Imagine my surprise when there was no such option for Rangers of Arnor. Thranduil's upgrade seems vastly overpowered, it would seem a waste *not* to use it and arm 1/3rd bows and 2/3rds throwing daggers. And they've really ignored some big issues: Numenor is now equal to Khand (wtf?), never mind being worse than Isengard. Even Dunlendings are stronger (wtf*2). Gondor is now the runty left-over of the world, rather than the heirs of greatness that, even in decline, can still take on all-comers. In short, what had become an arbitrary hodgepodge with little resemblance to Tolkien is now worse IMHO.

I also don't get why pages 2 to 15 are exactly the same in every book. What a waste! They could have given that part away as a free booklet with every purchase of one or more books, and saved themselves and the consumer the extra cost. Or they could have bundled it with a reprinted LoME and offered both Legions and Warbands as gaming options.

This is not the level of effort I would have expected after over a year of silence and letting sourcebooks disappear from print. It tells you exactly what GW thinks of this game line.
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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:56 pm 
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I predict that harad will get the nerf stick and the 50% rule will be eliminated.

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 Post subject: Re: Going through the new source books
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:23 am 
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What is bill the pony's second breakfast rule?
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