Hi everyone does anyone that comes here play Flames of War?
I play and am just interested.

Easterling

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Behind My Hedgerow

I'd like to play, but I don't know anyone else from my area who plays it, so no. Actually I have already too many games for which I have bought rules and miniatures and never played...

The miniatures look really nice, I've been holding them in my hands several times in games shops and seriously considered buying some.

-- Pasi

I have some FOW minis (unpainted as yet). I believe Dagorlad has some interest in FOW. There are compatible minis from Old Glory and Skytrex as well as Battlefont's own minis so lots of scope for variations. My main interest would be the Western Desert, Rommel and Spike Milligan (yes, the Goon was there).

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Published ebooks:
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I've played the game once and its now on the rotation with WoTR. I'm not a big fan of it but I'm going to give a chance. If I can find a good ranged list than I'll probably enjoy it more.

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http://drinkingwotr.blogspot.com/ - Links to my CrAzY House Rules, Games and 'poor man's' terrain.

I am really interested in WW2 and like the rules for FOW but decided not to play it because of costs and the fact that i would need a totaly different terrain set when playing them for scale reasons. Although I have never painted a miniature or seen one up close.

The only times I've seen and participated in Flames of War (and indeed in it's twin brother Blitzkrieg Commander) I was left thoroughly underwhelmed by the rules. They are obviously based thoroughly on GW core principles (BC is the Warmaster game engine) which involve obsolete D6s in huge numbers and realism/historical accuracy/plausibility go out of the window. As a gaming experience I hated every second that I was involved in it. Just as GW simplified things down to allow the Nintendo generation to fit a game into the 90 minute attention span of their target audiences so Battlefront and Specialist Military Publishing have copied them wholeheartedly.

It's a shame because every FoW/BC battle was beautifully-equipped with gorgeous miniatures (rather too many Tiger IIs and Pershings for realism and interesting gameplay but that's wargamers for you). I've gamed with 1/200 (10mm) and 1/76 (20mm) in WW2 and 15mm seems to be the best compromise scale, but there is no rules set that does it justice.

With regard to terrain replication, there is a lot of overlap if you choose your theatre of operations carefully. Obviously WW2 was a mechanised war and battles were fought for road/railway/canal junctions and bridges. This means scale roads/rail lines/canals and bridge models, which for 28mm LOTR are neither plausible nor necessary. However, the Western Desert campaign was often fought far from civilisation and awkward scaled terrain. A low sand dune in Far harad is a steeper one near Bir Hackeim. On the Eastern Front there were battles such as Kursk fought across vast steppes, where houses had been torn down for firewood and roads were muddy paths. In 28mm a track is a Soviet two-lane highway for 15mm battles. Use 15mm Oak tree models (perhaps 4-5 times taller than a soldier) to represent orchard trees for 28mm figures. Always acquire new terrain with an eye on the stuff that indicates no particular scale - that way it can be used for both systems. I even use some stuff for three scales and three very different genres - 6mm science-fiction, 15mm American Civil War and LOTR in 28mm!

I don't know to much about GW systems, but I don't think FoW is anything like them. It is also realistic just not to the point where it gets boring by the amount of rules. It is also not a 90 minute game! A normal full sized battle can go up to 3 hours with infantry armies.

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Behind My Hedgerow

FoW was written by an ex-GW employee, and follows the GW ideas for commercial games in pretty much every respect. While large infantry actions may take longer (just as Armageddon games for 40K take longer than average), the core games are intended for fast-paced action with specific, historically-unlikely scenarios working to points-based army lists that barely scratch at historical orders of battle. Even where the designers have stuck to history it's been abused. One chap who used to play Finns had the only two KV1s that the Finns ever possessed - both captured from the invading Soviets - in every army that he put on the field. My local group loves to fit in Sturmtigers and Jagdtigers, even in 1944 Normandy since that's 'Late War'. US Shermans have a .50 calibre anti-aircraft machine gun on the turret, alongside the co-axial and bow .30 MGs. That's three machine guns against infantry, defying all military logic that would have the tank commander get out of the turret to use the AA MG while the rest of the crew happily spray away without his direction. I could go on, but this lip-service to reality (same with Warhammer and individuals stopping entire regiments forty-times larger or 40K and chain-swords in use 38,000 years after the complete domination of missile weapons) makes for fast games but nothing approaching simulation.

Realism involves lots of rules, to cover the myriad different aspects of warfare. Simplicity means abstraction which is the enemy of realism. I appreciate that a good game has to make many sacrifices for realism, but there are better efforts out there than FoW (even if the miniatures aren't so nice!).

GW and their clones should stick to fantasy and sci-fi (or sci-fantasy), and leave history to those who know it better. Warhammer Ancient Battles is an example of how it should have been done, although GW are now apparently withdrawing support for that and it's dying off.

Hmmm, I've never played a FOW game but I could see your point. As for the terrain now I think about it, thats true, but i've already started up my own rules using valient miniatures (10 quid for 68 minies!) and they are fair quality as well!

Hi Easterling, I've been playing it since not long after it came out. It is a very good game, for what it is trying to represent. Essentially, you are a company commander blessed with all the support around at that point in time, and give general orders to your platoons. The platoons then resolve their actions for you without too much fiddly work on your part. My main concern about with the game is that it is already showing signs of age and design conservatism. I wish they'd borrow a little more from some of the other games that are now mixing the IGO UGO format up a bit, and that is something they could learn more about from GW, funnily enough. That aside, by being willing to abstract things like ambushes and range out, the rules designer has managed to cleanly cram many aspects of WW2 battles together without slowing down play.

It bears little resemblence to the main GW games, aside from the fact is shares the most common dice type with them...and monopoly, and also shares measuring devices with them.... and builders. That's not actually true, it also shares popularity and prominant store presence with GW. It is well balanced for tournament and pickup play and gives a good game in 2.5 hours (which is somewhat of a tournament standard) for 1500ish points.

Unless they were the ones with a specific model that I wanted, I would be looking at the cheaper alternatives to Battlefront these days. They are not keeping track with their competitors here.

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

Epic, epic thread necromancy here. I've been interested in FoW for a couple years, but have never looked into the rules or collected any miniatures. Battlefront recently announced 3rd Edition, and they've created promotions with Maelstrom Games and the War Store, where, with every FoW order, you can receive a copy of the 3rd edition mini-rulebook for free. Now, in a video, and on the Maelstrom website, it is stated that this mini-rulebook is really just a small version of the regular rulebook. But, on the War Store's site, their advertisement suggests that the mini-rulebook they're giving away is a supplement to the 2nd edition rules. Can anyone confirm that the War Store is just advertising incorrectly?

Hi Jamros - V3 is a completely new edition. V2 is going to be history by March.

The deal with the 'mini' (I've seen it, it is a sizeable book for A5 format) book is that when V2 came out they gave all us V1 players a mini version both as a 'thank you' and as a way to ensure there was no version change angst. So we were all playing the new version ASAP. They decided to do the same this time around but this one is slightly better in that the V2 one missed some of the rules. What the Warstore probably mean is that they'll sell you a bundle of the V2 Hardback and the V3 mini (as a way of clearing obsolete stock) or that if you already have the V2 Hardback then you are entitled to present it at a participating store and you get the V3 mini.

V3 is timely. I must have played just about every wargame under the sun this year but comparatively little FOW - less than ten games. So I am eagerly awaiting the release of the hardcover version.

Cheers

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

This is exactly what the advertisement says:

You don't have to buy the V2 Hardback for the offer--you just have to buy anything from their store with the "FoW" brand on it. The same offer is being done at Maelstrom Games, though in "real life" you can get the rules for free at a hobby shop by showing them a copy of your V2 rulebook. My confusion stems from the fact that the advertisement is "for players who already own the second edition rules" but I feel you've answered my question. This rulebook isn't missing anything, as was stated by John-Paul Brisigotti in his video, its just that its being marketed directly at those who own the second edition rules. Now, I might be completely wrong and put this in my cart alongside a random tank blister and be told I need to get the V2 rulebook or something, but I'll try it out I suppose.

Hi Jamros,

That part of my post referred to your uncertainty about what the Warstore might be on about. Maelstrom are just straight giving the mini away to all FOW customers in Feb.

Cheers

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

I'm pretty sure that Maelstrom and the War Store are doing the exact same thing--its just that Maelstrom is very clear about it, where the War Store is kinda obscure in their explanation. I think I'm having trouble explaining myself

Make sure I got this right: Battlefront Games is running a promotion to get their new rules out in the form on a mini-rulebook, specifically but not exclusively targeted at gamers who owned 2nd edition. They produced a video showing off the new rulebooks and mentioned that the mini-rulebook is the same as the regular upcoming rulebook, just smaller. In "real life," owners of 2nd ed can present their old rulebook to a local gaming store and recieve the free mini-rulebook right away. On the internet, Maelstrom is bundling the mini-rulebook with any purchase of a Flames of War item this month. Now, here's where the confusion began: it seems as if the War Store is doing the exact same thing as Maelstrom, but the wording of their advertisement suggests that A) they're giving away a different booklet than the one featured in the video, or B) the mini-rulebook, in fact, does NOT feature all of the rules of the regular rulebook, just enough to get 2nd ed players caught up to speed.

It can't be B, as the video specifically stated that such an assumption was fallacious--the mini-rulebook is exactly a smaller version of the regular 3rd ed rulebook. Therefore, it has to be either A, or poor advertising. In regards to A, I thought maybe the War Store would send out printed versions of "Stepping Up to Version Three" by Phil Yates, and NOT the mini-rulebook. So, I wanted confirmation that the War Store would bundle the mini-rulebook with FoW orders rather than "Stepping Up To Version Three," a 7-page pdf booklet on the FoW website explaining the changes for 2nd edition players. I'm still a bit confused but I'm assuming that the War Store is just advertising poorly.

Honestly, I'd rather just order from Maelstrom--better prices, clearer advertising--but I'm not able to order oversees at the moment.

Ah the Warstore. One of a number of big US online stores that *could* sell World-Wide but the US is a big market so they are not really going to try that hard with their website Yes I do find some of those stores a bit of an unnecessary puzzle too. From what I hear from US guys - they do handle handle phone and email inquiries very well though so that might be the way to go in lieu of puzzling out their webfront? I've got in the habit of direct emailing sales-staff for pretty much any order I make to the US, seems to be the way things are done.

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

Well, I found out that even the Flames of War Paintbrush Set counts as a qualifier to receive the Flames of War mini-rulebook from the Warstore, and am thus very tempted to place a purchase. Yet, the set plus shipping will still end up being around $17, to get a "free" rulebook. It's an awesome, awesome deal, but if I don't like the game itself or end up collecting WWII miniatures, its $17 totally wasted. SO! I was just wondering if someone could explain the basic mechanics of FoW to me, its complexity, etc.