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 Post subject: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Hey all, when WoTR first came out, I fooled about with several different Evil armies for it. Moria has turned out to just be too cost intensive (all Blackshields all the time) Mordor doesn't appeal much to me and Angmar works best with mostly Orcs and Men anyway. Having eliminated most other armies as choices, I've finally decided on Isengard. I have a combined total of about 14 Companies of Orcs, as well as some Warg Riders, Dunlendings and of course Uruk-hai.

My main concern is the size of my formations. I currently have enough for 4 Companies of shield-armed Uruks and 3 Phalanx Companies, but it appears that more may be required to fully flesh the army out and make them survivable. I've also been told that command options are largely point sinks. Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:30 pm 
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How many points is your army that you will be playing with?

I find even with a 1000 point army I like at least 3-4 phalanx or warband units, minimum of 3 stands, but like 4. Nice to have some cheap Isengard orcs to give you some bulk fodder. I just finally got enough Dunlendings to do a 4 company unit so haven't used them yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:36 pm 
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6 coy Uruks with shields are fun (a shooty haradrim army didn't get a company off them in my first game), though according to Xelee (who plays against Isengard a lot), they are better in 4 coys. You will want a lot of Shield Uruk-Hai, Crossbows and if possible Dunlendings.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Well, depending on whether I can find any of the 20-strong boxes I was looking to get about 2-3 more boxes of Fighting Uruks. Ideally my main blocks would be:

2x 4 Companies of Uruk Warriors with shields
5-6 Companies of Uruk Phalanx
6 Companies of Orcs with 2-handed weapons
4 Companies of Dunlendings with shields

Which would come out to 710 points. Drop in Lurtz, Thrydan and a Captain or banner somewhere and it seems a decent 1000 points.

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Gondor: 2339pts
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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Id play with that list, it would be fun. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Pity you don't have Saruman in the list. You should swap Lurtz and the Captain/Banner for Saruman.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:29 am 
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GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Pity you don't have Saruman in the list. You should swap Lurtz and the Captain/Banner for Saruman.


Is Saruman really that potent? Obviously in SBG I'd be wary of spending 25% of my points on one Hero at this level. I had heard that magic was insane in WoTR though... I have both him and Lurtz, so I could really use both.

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
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Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
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Evil Men: 381pts
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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Spells of Ruin are brilliant. Epic Ruination (for free!)+Shatter shields (if the enemy have no shields, Exsiccate comes here), Exsiccate (Dark Fury), Bolt of Fire. Lovely combo to see an enemy unit just melt away, amd very hard to fail your focus (I'm not exactly blessed by the dice gods, but I never failed a WOTR focus roll yet).

Or be a total d#$k and flip him into some berserksers the turn before they charge. Next turn cast Blessing of the Valar, and you just nullified the effect enemy shooting had on them. Also fun to do when your opponent is getting happy about finally doing some damage to your Uruk warrior block. Or to keep a pike block (who are very squishy, but look epic) alive.

Then Epic Challenge is useful sometimes (though make sure you can't actually make it into the duel). Overlord is a nice boon, and Courage 6 means Courage tests are easy mode. Very well worth 240 pts to me. If you expand to 1500, you can add Lurtz in.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:33 pm 
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I agrre completely with Telchar (except the usefuees of Epic Challenge - don't do it), take Saruman and Thydan at 1,00pts add in Lurtz at 1,500pts.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:02 am 
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GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
I agrre completely with Telchar (except the usefuees of Epic Challenge - don't do it), take Saruman and Thydan at 1,00pts add in Lurtz at 1,500pts.


It can be useful, but very, very often (as in 99% of the time), it isn't (on a F4 model).

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Luckily there are lots of men to choose from in Isengard and you can easily fill them out cheaper from other suppliers.
Also add a couple Isengard Trolls and Siege and you'll be able to field quite a variety.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Saruman is pretty good if you're going for theme, overall though, nazgul are better as they can survive duels and spells of darkness are the best in the game so if you want to be competitive, ally them in. Generally for heavy infantry, I like to have 4 company formations which give good bulk as well as giving good moblity and numbers of formations. Phalanxes aren't much good unless you know you're facing cavalry (and even then they're pretty easy to avoid) which is another disadvantage of playing Isengard as you have to buy loads of boxes of warriors unless you want to go down the uruk scout route.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:31 am 
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That's my main problem with War of The Ring; there are some entries that are so overcosted or underpowered that why they were even included is beyond me. Others, however, are so potent that other lists ALWAYS ally them in. I was usually told to put up and shut up at my old store, hence me abandoning my Evil WoTR army...

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
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Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts
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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:27 pm 
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I think they underpowered some but over powered others because if you notice, their SBG counterparts are the opposite (usually), so GW did it probs to make more money. SO you buy one set of models for SBG but another set for WotR.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:43 pm 
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The Nazgul are overpowered in either ruleset though. It's hard out there for a Gondorian... lol

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Evil Men: 381pts
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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:44 am 
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If you play at 2,000pts in WotR, you have more choice in what to use, after the 'essentials' you can pick things you like.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:13 am 
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Isengard is my main list, though I dabble with Misty Mountains (sans Blackshields!) and recently Angmar (well Buhrdur's warband allowing lots of Cave Trolls, that's fun)

Generally yes, when in doubt take Saruman, He is a one man Artillery unit. This makes him a prime target for enemy duellers, but a small amount of care can keep him safe mostly. I agree with the spell order too.. Though with a proviso: Exsicate is better against lighter armoured large formations, while Bolt of Fire is better against higher defence smaller formations. i.e. Bolt of Fire barely tickles a 6co formation of goblins, as they are so cheap they soak up the damage, but exsicate will be devastating.

Companies of 4 seem to work best for Isengard for flexibility and manouvrability, and packing still a mighty punch and won't be wiped out quickly. I do though like to bury Saruman in a 5 or 6co formation of Shield uruks, as it gives him a good 'platform' from which to sling spells, that won't be easily cut from under him by enemy fire.

Phalanxes... urg. These are good to 'fill out' an isengard list, but in my opinion arent worth their points, as someone mentioned above, they do look cool, but all they do is make enemy cavalry bypass them and hit other formations. Crossbows are faaaaar more effective, i take as many as I physically can :)

Command ---- captains.. mmm can be useful. In general the WotR rule of thumb is 25 points = 1 Might point for heroes or captains. So captains provide 2 might points, a slight increase to atatcks and courage, and added speed as you can At The Double! If you already have Thryden, Saruman and possibly Lurtz, you might not need too many captains.

Banners though are far less clear cut. weigh up... 35 points for one more company of Uruks... or a flag on a stick that allows rerolls on charges and panic tests? Well I like to take one in my list as it looks cool to see the White Hand flying, and i place it in the formation most likely to need it's bonuses.

Drummers - 15 points for +1 speed... well if you have those usual pesky few points left over when trying to make 1000 or 1500 points and not enough for an extra Co of Uruks.. then by all means take a drummer. Again place him in a unit that needs it, which isnt likely to be a formation of Crossbows...

Shaman - Sigh... More Ruin spells are cool. but at 100 points for mastery 1 and 1 might point when you could ally in Druzhag or Kardush for the same money... or a Nazgul at 125 points... Lets just say unless an Isengard player rigidly takes no allies, and even then due to the high cost you will rarely see a shaman on the battlefield in WotR.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanting to build upon Isengard
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Nazgul are tough, I play Mordor and Gondor and I find a little alliance with Radagast and Thranduil from the the elves when I am playing Gondor pretty much evens that out when I fight Wraiths (when not being one) :)

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