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 Post subject: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:01 am 
Kinsman
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ok i have my lovely new dragon and want to use it, but i am not sure about the upgrades, they all seem to do good things but at the cost of 50 pts. thats 10 goblins :shock:

so which ones are best to use, and in a game at 1000 pts how many upgrades would it be best to take. (i dont want to fight with even numbers to my enemy, it's too fair!)
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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:26 am 
Craftsman
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I think tough hide is the best.

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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:40 am 
Wayfarer
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Fly. All the way. Breathe fire is a waste of time, given you can only do it three times, and then you have no will to pass the 'wound courage tests. If you have fly, then you'll be charging into combat immediately, and you won't be losing. There will be no time for it to be shot if you have fly, and as for wyrmtongue, meh, not for me. Hope this helped,
Bert
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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:56 am 
Wayfarer
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Tough Hide is excellent and is the best solution for the 'survival instinct' special rule. The extra two points of defence can mean a difference between the dragon staying in the fight and running away when you most need it. Save the willpower (and possibly might) to pass those courage test. Each extra point you have to add to your roll reduces the probability of it running away from 25% to 14%.
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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:34 am 
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@Chickenslayer: Defence is relevant in two cases, if dragon gets shot, or if it loses a combat. If you let your dragon get shot, you're an idiot. It's either in combat turn one, or sheltering behind a few ranks of troops. In fights, a dragon is one epic troop killer, and with F7, not even Gil-Galad's super elves are gonna beat it. In a true worst case scenario, your dragon is transfixed. Dubious. With Resistance to Magic, and 3 Will points, that isn't going to happen much, particularly if you eat his wizard beforehand. If you do lose, in same worst case scenario, you're surrounded by Khazad Guards, with a 1/3 chance of wounding. That might be the time to either use some might points, or wonder why on earth your 300 point monster is in that situation. Your dragon should be launching itself at your opponent's front line. The best way of doing this is with fly.
That's my view, take it or leave it.
Bert
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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:51 pm 
Loremaster
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Kingofkhazad wrote:
Fly. All the way. Breathe fire is a waste of time, given you can only do it three times, and then you have no will to pass the 'wound courage tests. If you have fly, then you'll be charging into combat immediately, and you won't be losing. There will be no time for it to be shot if you have fly, and as for wyrmtongue, meh, not for me. Hope this helped,
Bert


Well said. :yay:

You should only and always take Fly.

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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:25 pm 
Wayfarer
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I really can't agre with you more strongly. However, I have only put forward reasons against Tough Hide and Breathe Fire. Other than the fact that it costs 50pts, I can't pin down why I wouldn't take Wyrmtongue. If done, it would then make the dragon rather handy at hero hunting as well, apart from b***** elf lords. But I can see that it would take up a huge amount of the points available. Any thoughts?
Bert
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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:19 pm 
Loremaster
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Kingofkhazad wrote:
I really can't agre with you more strongly. However, I have only put forward reasons against Tough Hide and Breathe Fire. Other than the fact that it costs 50pts, I can't pin down why I wouldn't take Wyrmtongue. If done, it would then make the dragon rather handy at hero hunting as well, apart from b***** elf lords. But I can see that it would take up a huge amount of the points available. Any thoughts?
Bert


Bascially, a Dragon is more than capable of dealing with the vast majority of enemy Heroes; it doesn't need to spend 50pts to get more help.

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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:05 pm 
Kinsman
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Kingofkhazad wrote:
@Chickenslayer: Defence is relevant in two cases, if dragon gets shot, or if it loses a combat. If you let your dragon get shot, you're an idiot. It's either in combat turn one, or sheltering behind a few ranks of troops.
Bert
ok then, so fly is best, just a question though, HOW do you hide a dragon behind a few ranks of troops, i swear you could hide it behind a line of trolls and it would still be shot.

so will 1 turn of shooting really matter for my dragon?
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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:47 pm 
Wayfarer
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@General Elessar, thanks for clarifying, I wasn't sure. Given that you could get a wraith for that cost, it doesn't make sense.
@Mighty Uruk!!: Read the ruling on 'in the way' rolls. If any part of the model is obscured, then it gets it. If you have one goblin in front of it, then it gets the ruling. Thus, don't worry about that one turn of shooting.
Bert
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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:07 am 
Craftsman
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Ive used my dragon quite a lot so I have quite a bit of experience.
FLY!!!!!
A dragon without fly is a bad dragon.
1. fast movement, you wont get shot at as much or surrounded as much if you can zip in and out fast (you can be in combat in at most 2 turns)
2. you can move over other units. even if you get surrounded, you can just fly out.
combining those 2 you have MASSIVE advantages. Imagine Galadrial is hiding behind the enemy line with 4 people surrounding her. Normally you dont have a chance to attack her, but with fly and a heroic fight, she is as good as dead. you simply fly over and attack the body guards (calling a heroic fight) you kill them and then move on to her (you do knock down, so you will be doing 8 str 7 attacks against defense 3. That example was against an opponent who already knew to block their heroes, but usally people wont have their heroes surrounded; and even if you cant reach her in 1 go, simply move as close as possible and attack someone, call a heroic fight, then move into contact with her (i do this all the time, I can have the dragon up to 2 feet away, but im still capable of killing the hero in 1 turn)

breathe fire is usless as u get only 3 chances to use it, and you need the will for his survival instinct. wyrmtounge is the worst thing avaliable to him. Tough hide is only usefull if your playing huge games (like over 1200pts). tough hide does make your dragon pretty much invincible (ive had him surrounded by 4 dwarven heroes (of them named) and 4 khazards, they didnt leave a mark on him), but its not needed (unless its a huge game).

Play him smart and you will be fine.

recap: fly is a must, tough hide for big games (unless you know someone is taking a sauron or an army of ents), the rest is not worth getting.
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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:46 pm 
Ringwraith
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Iā€™d agree that fly is the best choice.

Fire breathing is useful if your opponent is easily intimidated, it can force them to think about how close together they keep their models. Only getting 3 attempts at most is limiting though.

Tough hide is useful against elf bows, 1 lucky wound from an elf bow can send your dragon running (it happened to me before).


Last edited by Farmer Maggot on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:21 pm 
Craftsman
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So, to pretty much recap in one convenient spot- fly is highly effective (it is the primary reason why the much squishier Ghulavar can survive- why would it not work better with the dragon?), breathe fire nice, but worthless, wyrmtongue is pointless (unless Gil-galad is running around), and tough hide quite useful- the only question being when you need to take it.

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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:56 pm 
Elven Elder
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I could see wyrmtongue as being very useful. Yes, you could get a Nazgul for that, but you can only cast 7 spells with it tops, but around 4 average, before it becomes ineffective. With the dragon, you can cast a spell a turn, just transfixing anything you don't like the look of. All it takes is one loss to lose it (via wounding) and even a captain will get lucky enough to roll higher than a dragon or use might to ensure a win. If he happens to have had a group of warriors, you would be surprised by how often someone can roll a 6 when they have a handfull of dice. In short, Tough Hide can save you, or you can use wyrmtongue to try and keep heros (especially if they happen to have magic or some great rule) stuck where they are. Not saying it's always worth taking, just saying that it can come in handy.

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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:07 pm 
Loremaster
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Yeah, but it's a very expensive luxury at 50pts.

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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:58 am 
Kinsman
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thinking of breath fire, are there any evil heroes who can transfer will from them to another model in any way.

also, how best to improve my dragon's chances of passing it's courage roll, because i do not want it to run away just because it suffers 1 wound
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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:05 am 
Ringwraith
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You can use Might and Will to boost your courage rolls, so you should always be able to make the first roll.
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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:52 pm 
Craftsman
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If you don't make the first roll, it is only because you have spent might and will points- unless you are doing an evil v. evil battle.

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 Post subject: Re: DRAGON!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:46 am 
Kinsman
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ok so the first roll is not too much of a problem, good
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