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 Post subject: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:42 pm 
Kinsman
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Hi, a few months ago I bought the Escape from Goblin Town starter box. I've read the small rulebook and most of it makes sense.

I've played Mordheim and WFB for years, so I have enough experience regarding both skirmish and larger battle games, but I have never played LotR or The Hobbit.

A fantasy store had to close and all of the LotR stuff went into an auction which I managed to win. So I have a large collection, but I'm clueless where to start.

My question for the experienced LotR gamers: can you help me forming an coherent warband/army out of what I own? What do I need to buy / trade for?

Books I have:

Mordor
War Of The Ring: Battlehosts
Fellowship Of The Ring: Journeybook
Siege Of Gondor
Ruins Of Arnor
A Shadow In The East
Battle Of Pelennor Fields
Scourging Of The Shire
Return Of The King (Best Of White Dwarf)
Khazad-dûm
Harad
LotR Collectors Guide

Boxed sets:

Ruins Of Middle-Earth
3x Ruins Of Osgiliath
2x Ambush At Amon Hen
2x Scourging Of The Shire
Fog On Barrow Downs
Mordor Troll
Mordor Orcs
Mordor War Catapult
2x Wildmen Of Druadan
Morannon Orc Commander
Black Guard Of Barad-dûr Commanders
2x Isenguard Uruk-hai Commanders
Uruk-Hai Scouts
3x Morgul Knights
6x Knights of Dol Amroth
2x Galadhrim Knights
3x Army Of The Dead
Warriors Of Rohan
2x Warriors Of The Last Alliance
2x Warriors Of Minas Tirith
Wood Elf Warriors
Guardians Of The Shire

Blisters:

2x Khandish Warriors
2x Serpent Guard
2x Mordor Uruk-hai
Mordor Orc Captain
Mordor Orc Command
Golfimbul
2x Gondor Bowmen
3x Uruk-hai w/ Crossbows
Uruk-hai Berserkers
2x Feral Uruk-hai
Castellans Of Dol Guldur
Giant Spiders
Giant Bats
2x Wildmen Of Dunland
3x Rohan Outriders
Rohan Captain (ft & mtd)
5x Haradrim Raiders
Haradrin Horseman Champion
Haradrin Command
Gandalf The Grey
2x Mahud Raiders
Mahud Warriors w/ Blowpipes
Shagrat Warleader
Dalamyr Fleetmaster Of Umbar
Hasharii
Wild Warg Chieftain
Dead Marsh Spectres
Arnor Captain & Standard Bearer
Morannon Orcs
Morannon Orc Captains
Morgul Stalkers
Black Numenor Warriors
Easterling Command
Watchers Of Karna

!!! Not looking to trade or sell (yet). Just asking advice on how to build an army from what I have !!!
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:11 pm 
Loremaster
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Sounds like a significant haul that Smaug the dragon would be proud of! For the sake of verisimilitude, it would be great to see an image of the lot?
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:24 pm 
Kinsman
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Will do so when I collect the lot. First the auction has to clear (ended yesterday), then payment... I can pick up the goodies 17/5. Counting down :)

So, what army / fraction should I collect, starting with what I am about to receive?
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:52 pm 
Ringwraith
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All those old sourcebooks are out of date, unfortunately, but you can certainly still have fun with them, at least for learning.

The answer to which army you "should" get is up to you. Most people base their decision on aesthetics or theme. There are quite a few games where the legitimate answer is "not those, they suck", or "definitely these, they rock", but for LotR SBG this is not really the case. Yes, there are some armies that are less optimal, and some that are easier to play (at least for learning), but you can have fun with a huge variety of combinations.

In any case, it looks like you have a decent start for anything related to Mordor or Gondor.
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:10 pm 
Kinsman
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whafrog wrote:
All those old sourcebooks are out of date, unfortunately, but you can certainly still have fun with them, at least for learning.


Aaah, that's why they went so cheap!!

I hope the Mordor book is still up to date for that fraction?

whafrog wrote:
In any case, it looks like you have a decent start for anything related to Mordor or Gondor.


Cool, that's the kind of answer I was looking for.

What are "must have" units for Mordor or Gondor that I should try to get my hands on? Not aiming to take this too serious 'competition-wise' but I'd rather start out with some decent units :)
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:03 pm 
Loremaster
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If I was in your situation, I would enjoy putting together a wide and varied collection of miniatures, being in effect able to field a variety of armies with a with allied contingents(E.G keep the lot!).
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:47 am 
Elven Warrior
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For Isengard: You have got about 300 pts for a scout army if you take the wildmen, uruk scouts, uruk commanders and some orcs. You should have a good ratio of archers there too but would just be looking to add some harder hitting troops or hero like warg riders or Saruman. The beserkers/crossbow could go ok, just is more themed towards a non scout army. I would add in the beserkers.

For Mordor: Again another pretty well balanced list, about 500 points or more. Shagrat, troll, captains, orcs, mordor uruks. Morgul knights I'm not sure about what lists they are used with, but should do a good job. Morgul stalkers are also a nice pick up as far as I'm concerned. What you'd be looking to pick up here are probably ringwraiths, maybe gothmog and possibly some orc trackers. This pretty much depends on what amount of pts you'd have. Its got a very solid core and should be able to go toe to toe or better with other elite troops but doesn't have a lot to deal with heroes. I think a Shaman or 2 would also be good to have.

Dol Guldur: You have the makings of a list here. I don't have the book for this so can't help out, but again you'd only be looking to add a hero as you have the spiders, bats, castellans, orcs, spectres.

Harad: You have a few good elite things here but not much backbone. Pick up some Harad warriors or a mumak and it makes its own list otherwise combine it with your Mordor force and you would have a pretty good army needing just the hero (though you already have one on horseback). Its a little soft at the moment though so it might hit hard but wouldn't take much to break it. You would use the black numenoreans, serpent guard, mahud, khandish troops etc with this army. It would be your choice what you want to make out of this - you can go pure harad pretty easy, harad/umbar/khand or harad/easterling which would give you some stronger core infantry.

Gondor: You have all the core troops/allies you need but you would need to choose what theme you like to go down in order to get the rest. You have aragorn & gandalf, you might think about getting boromir and some captains. You are missing the elite sections for this army really but that could be filled by army of the dead. I'm not really a fan of citadel guard but most people will get them because they have better shoot value and decent defence, but its a fair investment of $$ when you already have troops with bows, which is why you need to decide what you want. Similarly if you wanted to add fiefdoms, you are looking at a significant investment. I would just got for a bulked out army of infantry and a few heros (boromir, aragorn) along with banners and captains as you should be able to outlast a lot of things. Gondor doesn't have a lot to deal with elites or heroes other than by charging into melee, so you'd need to pick your targets carefully. Probably the simplest choice would be to ally some rohan riders in and pick a rohan leader to go with it or go for prince imrahil and some swan knights who are a little tougher, but more expensive. What are the gondor archers you have in blisters? 2nd age?
As for a 2nd age list, you have some warriors, just get a hero like elrond and your set. If you wanted a rivendell force, just take use the high elves, some wood elves, the dunedain from guardains of the shire and add heros again like aragorn, elrond, elladan/elrohir, thranduil and so on, whoever is to your liking.

Rohan: add some riders, get some heros. not a huge difference between them so going for whoever you like most should still work out.

So to summarise: get some hero troops! There is an army builder around somewhere which will help you put it together but you still need to get the new sourcebooks.

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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:16 am 
Kinsman
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@ Bilbo: thank you for the tip. I plan on trading away some of the things I have in multiples.

For example: I can't imagine ever needing two copies of "Scourging Of The Shire" or "Ambush At Amon Hen"?

@ Hodush: This is great advice!! I am currently reading it trough for the third time :)
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:55 pm 
Loremaster
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I can quite see that one only needs so many Frodo of the Nine Fingers on My Little Pony! (Which bizarrely I picked up for £20 at an independant stockist yesterday) the only possible use I can see is for the to be turned into monuments for a post scourging of Shire battlefield, which wouldn't make much sense!
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:11 pm 
Ringwraith
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Hodush wrote:
I'm not really a fan of citadel guard but most people will get them because they have better shoot value and decent defence


Citadel Guard don't have a better Shoot value, they have a better Fight value, plus the Bodyguard rule. They can also take a longbow (elf bow equivalent)...maybe that's what you meant. Personally I like Fountain Guard, but they need shields to really shine. I used the shields from Numenorians in the Last Alliance box.
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:26 pm 
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The citadel guard are quite effective when used in two ranks with bows to the front, supported by a rear rank of spears. I find that they addition of a few bows really helps their tactical flexibility. I find that they are a good supporting unit, but don't ever put them up against Guards of Barad Dur. Their body guard rule means that they can be used to slow down advancing monsters 1 at a time. The Guards of the Fountain court with shields can be relied upon to hold the line due to their high defense.
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:58 pm 
Elven Elder
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except that if you charge 1 model into a monster to slow it down, bear in mind the monster is probably gonna throw the citadel guard into your own men.

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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:21 pm 
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I am glad that that issue has been balanced out by the new monster special rules, as it was all to easy to put the breaks on an enemy Balrog by feeding him a Khazad Guard a turn. This way there is risk from the monster barging through or flinging your own man back at you, which could be pretty disastrous! In saying that, its still worth a go when in a pinch!
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:28 pm 
Ringwraith
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SouthernDunedain wrote:
except that if you charge 1 model into a monster to slow it down, bear in mind the monster is probably gonna throw the citadel guard into your own men.


I'm finding this is still a viable tactic, especially if you have a warrior who can shield. The throwing range on average is not that high--around 3-4 inches for trolls, and the odds of survival aren't bad either. Not to mention, if you can get around to the opposite side of the monster from the rest of your warriors, the throwing range starts from there, so it includes the monster's base. For a cave troll, that's ~1.5" already, a mordor troll is ~2.5".

You wouldn't do it if all your models are clustered in a big knot or on a line, but since we play with a lot of terrain this usually doesn't happen anyway. It's one of the reasons I like the monster rules so much, they are handy and sometimes very effective, but not overpowered.
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:33 pm 
Elven Elder
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monsters throw from their base and can throw 360 degrees so that doesnt really work. 3-4 inches? My mordor trolls usually throw at least 6 on average which is usually enough to knock over enemy heroes and banners :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:49 pm 
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I think the monster rules have made them as powerful as you would expect them to be, because they could be slowly neutralised in an unbalanced manner. However, they have a chance at overcoming this, but naturally in a dice game based on probability, there should always be risk, and the consideration on how to act makes the game interesting.
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:06 pm 
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edit: sorry, was meant to be a PM! Must have clicked "quote" by accident.

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Last edited by Thermo on Fri May 10, 2013 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:12 pm 
Ringwraith
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SouthernDunedain wrote:
monsters throw from their base and can throw 360 degrees so that doesnt really work.


Yes, 360 degrees, but from the location of the enemy warrior, not any part of the monster's base edge. If that's how people are doing it, no wonder they think it's so powerful.

The clue is in step 4 on p63. "All model's passed through (excluding the hurling Monster...)" The only way you will "pass through the hurling Monster" is if you measure from the hurled model's position. If you just measured from the monster's base, this condition would never apply, and they never would have mentioned it.

SouthernDunedain wrote:
3-4 inches? My mordor trolls usually throw at least 6 on average which is usually enough to knock over enemy heroes and banners :lol:


Ah, right you are about the average, but you still have to measure from the hurled model's position, so careful placement can mitigate this effect by dropping 2.5" off the distance.
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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:53 pm 
Elven Elder
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Quote:
Q: When a Monster makes a Hurl attack, do you measure
the distance thrown from the base of the Monster making
the throw or the target modelʼs base? (p63)
A: Measure from the Hurling Monsterʼs base.


:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Large collection but zero experience
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:20 pm 
Ringwraith
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I think you measure from the point the two bases touch. In any direction from that single point. It would be a bit cheeky if the monster player picked up the warrior, moved him to the opposite side of the monsters base then threw him the rolled distance. You'd be gaining an extra 40/60mm in that case depending on what monster you are using.

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