Having been out of the hobby for several years, it was a bit of a nasty surprise to find that the GW/Citadel paints have been revamped (again).

Now, I know there is a colour conversion chart (thanks for posting it here, Azog) to assist us, but I want to know if there are any other differences. You see, I was at my local store today and I noticed that some of my stock choices (say, Catachan Green) have not only got new names, but are now classified as "Base", as opposed to "Layer". I know that the "Foundation" paints have better coverage, but what is the difference between "Base" and "Layer"? Will "Base" paints still dilute and blend as well as they used to, or do only "Layer" paints do that?

A guy at the store said that the paints were not really equivalent. According to him, the very make up has changed, the consistency, the way it can be diluted. He reckons the colours are not even a true match.

I don't trust GW on this. I want to know your experience with them. I had a way of painting (technique is perhaps too grandiose a term) that involved using very thin paint and basically adding Bleached Bone incrementally to highlight. Will this still work if using a "Base" paint, like my Castellan Green (the replacement for my old Catachan Green)?

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"Use what talents you possess: the woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best."

Base paints are just the main shades. Layers I think are just lighter shades of these base paints used for highlighting. I don't believe you will notice any difference in the way you apply them consistency wise. The conversion chart is a nearest fit, so no the new paints colours will not be exactly the same as the old ones, but quite close.

Nice to see you active again.

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You don't have to be great to start. But you do have to start to be great.

Do what a lot of us have done, change to Vallejo paints, really much better quality than the GW paints, better packed and more choice of colours.
Most model shops sell them

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Harfoots-The first of the Hobbit people to cross over the Misty Mountains and enter Eriador.

Vallejo is the front runner for paint nowadays. You get a higher quality product with more in a bottle for less money than the nearest citadel equivalent. Its a no brainer.

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You don't have to be great to start. But you do have to start to be great.

I'm another Vallejo convert. Unfortunately I can't replace all I need to but I'm making a start at replacing old pots of GW with new Vallejo. The colours are more varied and mix well, in fact they are by far my favourite.
Great to have you back with us and I love your Legolas.

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mallysminiatures.blogspot.co.uk

Welcome back!
This of course means The MacGothmog Quantum Boomerang 'They Always Come Back' Theory has been proven yet again.
I too am looking at Vallejo paints, in part because I am working on WW2 stuff as well as LoTR, Dreadball, Sedition Wars and later this year, Deadzone.

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Instrument of the Empire
A Note of Defiance
Phantom Ships, Ghost Flotilla
More to come!

Hey Mark, great to see you're back!

Base is roughly similar to the old Foundation series, that is, good coverage and high amount of pigment. They are not as muted as the Foundation used to be. I think they are slightly improved from Foundation. Balthasar Gold is awesome. A bit hard to mix with Layer because their pigment amount is so different.

Layer is the replacement for the old Colour, that is, your basic paints. They seem to have slightly less pigment than the old Colour series. GW says it is because they are intended to be used on top of Base and each other without mixing and still produce gradual layers due to their slight transparency. I believe GW is just saving on pigment costs. Inferior to old Colour in my opinion. The conversion charts are very inaccurate.

Shade is for shading like old Washes and Glaze is for glazing like old washes. Both are very good for their tasks. Shade does not glaze and glaze does not shade if applied properly, which is very good compared to the old washes. And they don't smell awful.

If you still paint by mixing gradually more light colour to a darker base colour, the new paints are in my opinion not for you. I'd go for Vallejo with your painting style.

-- Pasi

Thanks guys.

I will give it a go. I had a full set of Vallejo, bought that case deal some years back, but never tried them. I gave them away in the end. I don't know of any local supplier now - the one I bought from closed down.

I don't paint much though, so a few pots now and then will be OK.

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"Use what talents you possess: the woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best."

Citadel dry out very quickly, is there any difference with Vallegio?

Bilbo - Vallejo take a longer time to dry and come in a dropper bottle, so you don't lose nearly as much. Even if you need to do a whole drop for just one eye, it still levels out or is better in the end in my experience.

Tobold - It is pretty much as Valpas has said, just an increase or decrease in pigment between the base and layer. So technically they are different but not in any way that really matters. Use base for base layers and layers for everything else if you do get them (but I'm a Vallejo fan now, even after being annoyed at them initially but that was just my bad painting technique of slapping on as much paint as I could.)

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http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=25957&p=325932#p325932

New Citadel line hasn't really been all that great in my experience. Instead, another thumbs up for Vallejo. They're just superb. If I would have known how great they were I never would have purchased any Citadel Paints to begin with.

Coat d' Arms paints are more similar to Citadel as the company used to manufacture the Citadel line a few iterations back, if you want to stick to the style of "old GW."

By the way, here's a full conversion chart from Dakka Dakka comparing new Citadel, previous Citadel, Vallejo Game, Vallejo Model, Rackham, Reaper, Privateer Press, and Coat d'Arms:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart