Correct me if I am wrong, but the addition of the new shieldwall rule to WoMT makes them slightly more viable.

However, if they lose a fight, doesn't their move back takes them out of the shieldwall unless the back rank is also made up of WoMT, naturally with shield and spear?

As a result, what are people's thoughts of the make-up of the spear rank. Stick with rangers/citadel guard (the latter which now only have access to spear or bow) in order to add fight 4, or move to an all WoMT gondor shieldwall in order to ensure the defence 7?

Thanks in advance,

Tinchley

This has been my setup.
1-WoMT with shield and spear
2-WoMT with shield
3-Ranger with spear

1 3 3 3 3 1
2 2 2 2 2 2
This provides a strong flank for me, yet good archery, at a cheaper cost than the one mentioned above. Just stay trapped, you will probobly not die if it is an orc without a pick or an axe.

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By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

But surely being trapped is much worse, especially against non pick/axe opponents, as they’ll be wounding on 6s defence 7 or not. Surely it would be better to move back into a second line of shielded spears to ensure defence 7, especially against opponents like morannons.

To the original post, I believe that is something people are going to have to make a risk to reward calculation on depending on what they expect to face. I would certainly think that it will be more common to bring full blocks of shield and spear and shield and sword warriors over other stuff. Especially if the army has Boromir and his banner which buffs their fight. Still if the opponent has priority and gets to choose fights it will be his his interest to to skip every other fight going down a line. Because, if he wins on either side of a warrior the fight that was left will have have the shield wall effect. I still think that fountain court guard will shields will be the competitive choice for a back line while the warriors in the front just become slightly tougher meat-shields.

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"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

Does the shieldwall rule take place before the model is moved back an inch or after?

I guess that it would be after. That is how it works for fury and the like.

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"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

Didn't it used to be that making way for a pushed model was optional? A situation where you could trap your own model but still be a higher defence for the double attacks? I could be wrong but thought there was something like that tactic when iron hills came out.

Indeed, I believe you can still do that. However, against strength 3 they are already wounding on sixes, so might as well move back rather than be trapped.

At strength 4, staying trapped would mean against a standard infantry model and spear support four dice wounding on sixes, as opposed to two dice wounding on fives if the model moves back. This is exactly the same chance, so I see no advantage or disadvantage to staying trapped unless this would allow other WoMT to stay in shieldwall for later combats.

Unless I am wrong, an all WoMT spear + shield back line however would allow you to move back and still be in contact with the spear also moving back and usually at least one of the other spear supports still yet to fight in the line, therefore keeping the Defence 7 without being trapped. I am just wondering if this advantage outweighs the fight 4 back line that is the tradition for Gondor shieldwalls and which WoMT often rely on to win combats.

I guess that's exactly the intention here - getting a block of WoMT, one with a scattering of elites, or a full unit of elites is very much a choice now - all have their pros and cons. Having yet to play against the Iron Hills, I don't know how easy or difficult it is to retain that solid line with shieldwall throughout. However, the new Ingold character has some special rule that stops friendly nearby troops backing away if I recall correctly, so that would combine wonderfully well with maintaining the required shieldwall support.

It is optional I believe.

_________________
By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

Oooh, if that is true then Ingold will become a staple of the WoMT shield wall, as he will allow fight 4 troops behind as the front line of WoMT, as no need to move back will mean that as long as there is enough WoMT (i.e. three at least) they will never lose their shield wall bonus. Do you have the exact reading of Ingold's rule or is that yet to be released? I am yet to get the armies book.

Not exactly the same chance.
2 dice to roll at least one 5, chance to survive equals: 1 - (2/3)x(2/3) is 55,56% (1 is the 100%, minus the chance on 2 times 4 or lower is (2/3))

4 dice to roll at least one 6, chance to surive equals: 1 - (5/6)^4 makes a 51,77% chance to survive.

So backing away is almost 4% better than standing stil.

And yes, it's not a very big difference, but calculating the odds is kind of my thing. I don't want to be a smart ass, but I like to calculate the exact odds. Sometimes it helps me winning a game... and sometimes the odds are not working how they should work (the dice don't roll always how they 'on average do').

I got 6's for 10 priority rolls in a row one time... Trust maneuvers, but not the dice, or your soldiers will die.

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By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

Youll lose if you dont consider tactics, sure. But if you dont consider statistics, your maneuvers wont do much either. Sure, you wont always get average results. But knowing which option makes more sense on average allows you to gauge what you should do. Sure, not moving back will often be advantageous. But its still good to know that youll have an edge if you do.

The Armies book covers the old models and profiles from the LotR era (basically those in the five sourcebooks - Kingdoms of Men etc.), but doesn't yet contain the upcoming releases as they weren't ready yet when the book went to print I think. Rules will probably be available for download from the Forge World website if the models are released before the new book containing their rules.

Hobbit profiles are available for download.

_________________
By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

Yes, but for such a small percentage, better to hold your ground. Keep the enemy back, because the shield wall tactic works best in a narrow area.

_________________
By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!