Minas Tirith warriors have a new Shieldwall special rule: if they are in base contact with two other models that have shields, their Def is +1. I thought this was great, it seemed like a nice way to represent their Roman-like discipline*...that is, until the first fight: the only time Def matters is when taking missile fire or against To Wound rolls after losing a fight. But if you lose the fight, you're probably going to get pushed away so that you are no longer in contact with anyone, never mind those two buddies, so your Def drops again.

In other words, this special rule has no real purpose, and doesn't even come close to representing the fluff text...sure it's a bit more defense against Str2 bows, but that's hardly a motive to create a new tactical strategy to leverage it. It seems to me the rule should read more like "if you start the Fight phase in contact with ...". Anybody else have a take on this rule?

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* ...even though their profile still sucks as representing the heirs of Numenor...

I do agree that it would be nice if the rule reads what you suggest, but I don't think it's useless. Often, WoMT will be in a 2-thick line with spear support. You will probably be able to back away in such a way that you can still touch 2 other WoMT (your supporting spearman and another spearman).

If there is a line, it doesn't last long, especially at smaller point values. In my case, a 400 point game. A bunch of Uruk hai scouts with the Mauhur upgrade threw that line into chaos pretty quickly because the line of push-back has to be directly away from the attacker, and they can easily flank. We ended up having one single fight where a warrior lost but was still touching two buddies...and he died anyway, lol. One fight in the whole game seems rather underwhelming, especially considering the amount of tactical fiddling you'd have to do to try to get that bonus more than once.

I think a reasonable house rule wouldn't be what I said above...that's too much tracking of who started the Fight phase in contact with their buddies. But if a warrior starts their own Fight in contact, I think they should get the bonus.

I've only recently started to play again after years of not. Is there a way to ask the designers for clarification, or provide feedback?

I suppose if you shield you can stay put.

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By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

Halving the casualties taken from S2 bows or S4 crossbows doesn't sound half bad for a rule that's entirely free (compared to the previous version of the profile). Even if you don't play in any way to optimise the use, it's still a nice bonus.

A main aim of the rule I imagine is to make the choice for elites a much more interesting one. Previously, elite spam was not atypical for the Gondorians. The best way to make use of Shieldwall however would certainly be using basic troops as spear support, given that no elites have it, and relying on the front line staying together certainly won't work. As said, backing away tactically should allow you to get the bonus fairly often early on - and it only makes sense that the bonus disappears as the line becomes increasingly disordered.

Or of course, just get the new lad Ingold. That will also do the trick.

(Official rules downloadable from FW https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/ ... Gondor.pdf )


You still back away if you lose the combat when shielding.

Hmmm.... My bad. Ingold is nice.

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By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

I think having problems getting the rule to preform in small matches is expected. Particularity when you are fighting irregulars with a higher fight. Even the Roman or Saxon shield walls were weak on the flanks. The Iron Hills certainly has that problem bu their fight 4 can help counter act the defect. I would like to see how the warriors of Minis Tirith preform with a three warband line of, say 18 by 2, against things like Morranon orcs or Easterlings with the same fight value.

Also, a model do not have to back directly away when a it loose a fight. Backing away is done "in a direction chosen by the controlling player." (pg. 44 ME:SBG Rule Book).

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"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

I use the following format, 1=WOMT with shield, 2 with spear also, 3 ranger with spear.
211112
233332
Can have multiple groups link up, too. Most get to be fight 4.

_________________
By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

Hmmm, now that does make a difference, thanks!

Also, that Ingold profile and model look great! I'm guessing that is the ForgeWorld stuff?

In a pack with Hurin the Tall:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Ward ... ondor-2018

How do you think you'd benefit from Hurin the Tall? I guess if you pair him up with King Aragorn, you can throw Aragorn into fairly dangerous combats, as you won't lose victory points even if he dies.

Except that you could still lose points for having Aragorn wounded (on the way to dying), although I guess that minimizes the loss a bit.

Or I gues you could pair him up with Denethor for a lower cost option, and move Denethor up into combat to give Hurin the re-roll, rather than hiding Denethor at the back.

On this...I'm not sure on my boards I could get that wide a string of troops. I use quite a bit of terrain...it's a skirmish game after all. A war band of 12 is about the max I can comfortably arrange, and it would probably struggle to move around intact. Anyway, it seems like Ingold is a must have, and possibly a tacit admission that the Shieldwall rule doesn't work quite as well as expected.

Khazad-Dum dwarves are more points, but give you more bang for your buck... They should really be a 9 point model for the extra courage, not even charging for the fight bonus... Guess what army I am starting?

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By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

Well whafrog, I will let you know how it pans out whenever I manage to test my hypothesis.

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"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

So Ingold is the bomb when it comes to leveraging the Shieldwall rule: if he or any other Gondor Warrior within 3" loses a fight, they don't back up, the winner backs up. That keeps all your Shieldwall models in formation and they retain their +1D. But that brought up another rule question: if under normal circumstances the Gondor model would be trapped because nobody can make way, is it still trapped if the enemy has to back away?

Our in-game ruling was "yes", because otherwise it seems a bit too potent, but I'm wondering if there are any thoughts on it.

I would say no, if you don't back away you can't be trapped.

Yeah, if you don't back away you are not trapped. On a side note, you cannot choose not to back away and just be trapped in a normal fight, yes?

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By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

From my reading of the rule and the way it fits with the wording in the rule book I'd agree with the other two answers in saying that it prevents trapping entirely because the test to see if a model is trapped cannot be applied in the normal course of resolving the fight. I bet that will make a Minas Tirith/Fiefdoms alliance pretty dangerous. A fight 4 pike block that does not give ground or suffer from trapping. Granted it would be smaller than might be liked but it would still be a neat trick.

Cave Dragon: No, you have to move back normally. Same with being obliged to fight if your in base contact.

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"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

Thank you!

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By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

Interesting thoughts. It was Gondor vs Uruk hai Scouts, so the D7 made a big difference, trapped or not (I suffered no trapped casualties anyway). If they can't be trapped, it makes for an unbelievably solid core out of F3 fighters that can move anywhere they want. I don't think you'd want to bother with pikes behind because if you get flanked, none of the pikemen will benefit, and they will certainly be trapped.

The configuration I chose was a front line of 5 WoMT/shield + Ingold in the centre, 6 WoMT/shield+spear behind, and a banner behind that. Even with flanking it didn't break up or go anywhere.

Anyway, I lean towards accepting the consensus, but it's weird how Shieldwall goes from "meh" to "wow" with just Ingold. I would have preferred a more consistent special rule for Shieldwall, and let Ingold's rule apply only to himself. Then again, it only really works with Ingold's war band, so maybe it's not too potent.

Could anyone clarify how Shieldwall would interact with loosing a fight to Cavalry.

If you are knocked down can you ever claim the bonus (i.e. with Ingold you do not retreat, so would still theoretically be touching two adjacent models, but are you considered to be in base to base if no longer standing)?