So theres a 400 pt tournament in a months time, and own 4 armies! So I've narrowed it down to 4 lists I might play. I have heaps of Isengard stuff so I'm flexible there. The other armies are more restricted to what is available.

400pt Numenor.
Isildur, shield, the one ring
1 warrior w shield and banner
7 warriors w shields
7 warriors w shields and spears

Captain w HA and shield
5 warriors w shields and spears.

Pros.
Isildur with the ring will be a bigger threat than anything I can realistically expect to face
High courage.
Resistant to magic across the board in a game this small.
Very solid shieldwall

Cons
No bows, and If I did have them, they'd suck anyway
No cav
Low defence
Low body count (22)

Isengard 400pts

Lurtz
7 warriors w shields
6 warriors w pikes
1 warrior w banner and shield

Vrasku
7 crossbowmen

Pros.
10 shots in the army. 9 at s4. Very nasty
Already 100% painted
Lurtz's special rule is very strong with such a powerful warband in such a small game
6 might, lots of heroic actions.
Another very solid shield wall
Hard to break

Cons
No spectacular fighters. Lurtz can clean up a monster with help, but any heroes of legend, and most heroes of valor will out grind him. Or just cavalry 1 shot him
No magic or magic res
Still a tad small. (23 minis)

Harad 400pts

The betrayer, horse
6 warriors w bow
6 warriors w spears
3 raiders w war spears

Cheiftain, bow
6 warriors w bows
3 warriors w spears(2 w bow)
3 abrakhan guard

Pros
MAGIC!!!
CAVALRY!!!
A nasty as hell poison blob
15 shots, all poisoned. Pew pew
29 bodies.

Cons
4 might
Very limited heroic actions (channelling and march )
Mostly fight 3, no shields to speak of
No heroic strikers. Any big bad heroes or monsters and i'll be at the mercy of the betrayers somewhat questionable magic skills and shooting rolls.

400pt far Harad

King, camel, war spear, shield
5 raiders w war spears, pipes

tribesmaster, shield
4 half trolls
5 warriors w pipes and spears
2 warriors w pipes

Pros.
That king is a house
tonnes of killing power, like, jeez .
Manoeuvrability
12 poisoned shots at 3+

Cons
4 might
low defense
I'd need to do a LOT of painting
Only 18 dudes!!!
Also, there are 8 year olds with more courage than this army


I'd love opinions, feedback and any help available! Anyone with experience in lower points games I'd love some tips!!!

I think all of those lists seem quite decent. Although I don't have a ton of experience with any of those factions.
The one tweak I might make is to Far Harad have it be an allied list with Serpent horde. I feel like the tribesmen with camels are pretty meh, but I see why you wouldnt want to take too many cavalry and have a tiny force, but just those regular troops in Far Harad seem overpriced and bad and since you can ally you might as well if you can eek out a better mix but still get the damage of the camels, which is gross by the way, and the Mahud king of course, who's pretty good for his points.
The list with the Betrayer looks the weakest to me but I am not really sure why, just kind of gut reaction. I guess that one feels like it has the least pieces for opponents to have to play around or worry about. You have cav, good at recon and a wraith good at dealing with monsters and big heroes but other then that you're fight 3 mostly and low defense without a big killy hero.

As to which you should take, probably the only thing that really matters is what you think you're going to be playing against and which list will do better against the other armies you'll likely see. If you have no idea what you're likely to see I'd probably lean towards Isengard, since the cross bows give you a little more variability then some of the other lists and Isengard has almost no bad match ups(really) so as long as you play well you'll probably do pretty well.

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Cheers,

P

I've played with the harad betrayer list on 500 points a couple of times and found it very fun to play against. I would suggest putting all your archers in the warband with the betrayer and give as many of them spears. Due to the army bonus all spears will be poisened as well giving you a surprising punch in combat. The 500 points list even had the betrayer on foot since his main function is to use his poison ability and spam magic. You don't want to use him in combat and on foot he is a harder target for enemy archers.
Your shooting is quite devastating getting a little over 2 wounds on sixes each turn on average. By the time on foot armies reach you, you could outnumber most armies in combat 2 to one, allowing for lot of spear support reroll failed to wound spears.
While it's true you do not really have an answer to powerfull enemy heroes like aragorn, but you can always employ the surprisingly fun tactic of having one warrior charge him and then shoot with everything else into that combat. If you're lucky you might wound him, but with so much shooting it's very likely you will kill your own warrior, cancelling any would be heroic combats.

I've found that the betrayer blob to be a beast in bigger games also! And yeah, this list and the Isildur list are the 2 that do best against big heroes, because of the exact reason you said, + The betrayer can do some magic shenanigans.

The horse is so he can get where he needs to go nice and quick, + get out of trouble quick + snatch objectives. Also I can't fit more bodies in!!!

Not sure about all archers in 1 warband. In battle line scenarios I'll be clumping my forces anyway, and in scenarios where I come on from random board edges I want my war bands to be able to function to at least some degree in case of the worst. Certainly something to think about though!
Thanks for the suggestions!

The Isengard force is fully painted, so if the Betrayer list is a bust in testing I just fall back on it for sure

I'm very surprised to hear that you rate the Harad the lowest! You're spot on with your suggestions on far harad, And I could look into taking a Suludan with abrakhan guard warband + a king and Camel warband.

The Harad list is a style I've played in bigger games and it is an absolute beating for many types of armies. Particularly slower armies and other low defence armies. The archers can (and generally do) kill a whole warband before combat!! I felt it was the best rounded and would love to hear more on your opinion of it!!

I guess, I find the Harad list the least scary because I mostly have played elves and I think I'd be willing to take the gun line archery off since the harad have such low defense but alternatively since your mostly all str 2 I think you would struggle with higher defense armies, which I see a lot when I've gone to events. Lots of Minas tirith, dwarves, isengard, ect that even with the poison and the Betrayer you're gonna have a hard time getting wounds but you also won likely have a higher fight so when the lines do crash I don't really see you having a big advantage there either.
I don't think its a bad list and I think youre right, it is well rounded, although you don't have high defense stuff, but the only thing it seems good against is low defense low fight armies with big heroes or monsters, maybe something like Moria, Goblin town, hobbits, which I haven't seen much of at all. Which, actually is why I haven't played more Harad, they just seem like a 55% type army, squishy and kitey, where if you play well you will win games but you don't have a huge advantage over many armies, which is a lot like elves and if I wanted that playstyle I'd play elves And elves, while less numbers, you get higher fight and str 3 bows.

That said, I dunno what you would change with the list. You could keep the betrayer maybe add the Mahud King and camels as the allies?


If you're most comfortable playing the Harad though, results wise, that's probably a good bet just because you'll be most comfortable, ect.

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Cheers,

P

I killed 8 dwarfs pre combat on Monday with my archers, then they gunned down 3 crossbowmen without the betrayer. 17 shots a turn (as it was at 700pts) re rolling to wound is still nasty against d6 and d7. Though it is diminishing returns at the d7 mark. In the game prior they killed about a dozen clansmen of Lamedon and 3 rangers, But obviously they're going to be the nuts against d4 stuff!!! Thats the only 2 games I've played with pure Harad and the archer blob was god tier. Low fight value is a problem though for sure. I have probably 50+ games with the Uruks by now! But usually I lean on Saruman!

Maybe I'm just real good at rolling dice, but I'll test em out. I can always as you said add a camel division to the army in case of emergency or just play the Uruk hai.

I can only see the Numenor army doing well against similar battle line armies where my s4 dudes and banner will chew through troops while Isildur bullies other Heroes of valor/legend with the ring. Against anything with solid cav or s3/4 bows I might as well have not turned up. Shame, such nice minis and I was keen to beat up some Aragons with Isildur. But that army is definitely in the 'fun games' category until they get an update.

Suludan
7 abrakhan guard
7 warriors with spears and bows

Mahud king on camel with spear + Shield
5 raiders with pipes + spears

Has entered the chat I guess.

For a higher fight value you could always switch a couple of haradrim warriors with spears for serpent guard.
A while ago I played a game versus 500 points wirkwood. by the time we got to combat, he had lost about 40 percent of his army, allowing me to outnumber him 3 to one. At that point, even if they have high defence, you can trap and then kill them.
Despite all of the upsides, I do agree that it's an one-trick list: you try to get as much damage for a very low model cost. If you opponent has specific couters to that, army of te dead or full mounted, or the terrain and/or scenario is against you, you're going to get a hard time

Yeah I mean go for it then. I guess it isnt exactly that you would have a good match up against elves or anyone else exactly, I guess just I feel like a lot of armies that I would expect to see would have the best shot against a list like that that you could play against. That said, it seems like a fine build and if youre comfortable with them then go for it. You will likely do well.
I do think sprinkling a couple Serpent guard could be good for the fight value but like you said you will likely win or lose the game in the first couple turns based on how much you can kill with shooting and it might not be worth fewer numbers total to get the increase in fight. I dunno how that would break down though, but I wouldn't drop the abrakhan guards since I think youre gonna want to str 4 kicking around too.

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Cheers,

P

I was going to say go with Isengard or Numenor at first but could not decide between the two. Seeing this new harad/far harad list though. I think it might be the way to go with two decent heroes, cav, and alot of killing power from the guard and camels. If I were going to fight it I would bring your Isenguard as a counter to gun your heroes and cav down. Idk if that makes Isengard better overall though.

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"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

What was it about numenor that you liked?

Played my first game with the Harad. Vs Mirkwood

Opponents rough list was
Legolas
7 rangers
Tauriel
7 rangers

Board was terrain heavy, scenario we rolled was reconnoitre

I was only able to kill 3 elves with shooting due to elven cloaks. My opponent obviously waited for me to come to him, but was reasonably unlucky with shooting, killing 6 harad and the betrayers horse pre combat. I picked on 1 side specifically and waited til we were in combat to make the move with my 3 riders, and they escaped the board. My opponent threw 3 elves towards my board edge, but too late. The game went on for a LONG time after we both broke. The game ended with only my 2 characters left on the board. With the betrayer about to walk off. Only the 2 elf characters (who massacred me!) and the 3 elves who were trying to run off left on the board.

1 game 1 win

Ha! Good show. Elven bow spamming is cheap.

The thing that I liked about Numenor on paper was chiefly the inclusion of Isildor. In the hero heavy game we've got now, his dueling prowess is pretty solid. The captain is good to hold up a second hero while the troops can square up with most infantry pretty well. The lack of shooting was the only downturn and that was pretty major but I have seen bowless armies preform well before. It seems well that you chose otherwise since you ran into a shooting heavy army right out of the gate.

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"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

So I've played 4 games now, sitting at 2 wins. 1 loss 1 draw.

Game 2 was vs goblin town. King, Grinnah and the scribe almost 50 models starting!!!. We played the relic. The scribe brought on 17 extra goblins in the first 4 turns!!! But after the gobbos found the relic I used my speed to isolate and destroy the warband holding it and inflicted casualties til the game ended.

Game 3. Hold ground vs iron hills. 3rd mission in a row that was random board edges. Dain, 4 goat riders and 12 dwarves with spear and shield, 1 with banner. Very tough army. My army came on and marched towards the centre, but the dwarfs double heroic marched to close the gap as quick as possible. I was not able to shoot nearly as much as i'd like and the 2 lines met prematurely for my taste. With dain losing a wound and 2 fate, 2 goat riders and 1 dwarf dying to shooting total My cheiftain was able to put dain on 1 wound but when dain won the fight he killed my poor southron. I broke the dwarfs and wounded dain but when the game ended 7 dwarfs (lol) were within 6 to my paltry 4. 4-2 loss.

Final game was a draw against goblin town + moria. goblin king, 17 goblins and the watcher in the water. I have never played such an uneventful game in my life. The scenario was clash by moonlight. The watcher immediately burst forth, shot my wraith, dragged him into combat and killed him. Then, in the first round of combat I immediately broke the goblin forces . Neither enemy character died or ran, and the goblin king made his saves when he had to. 5-5 draw in under half an hour.

Maybe Aragon with elven cloak, king of the dead and 9 warriors of the dead with shield should be my army hahaha just picked up the dead bois today!!! Would be far easier to paint!

Random board edges are tough to judge :/ But seems decent!

People do seem to like the Return of the King ;p not sure how much I like it at 400 but who knows maybe.

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Cheers,

P

Return is a powerful boi, but the fact that you must take aragon and KotD at 400pts is...... Restrictive.

List submission was today.

I ended up getting 5 games in with the harad list, winning 3, losing 1 and drawing 1.
1 game with return of the king winning it, but only just
2 games with a slight variation of the isengard list, for 2 wins. So the list I submitted was

Isengard

Lurtz
4 warriors shields
2 berserkers
6 pikes
banner with shield

Vrasku
7 crossbows.

Yeet. My motorcycle was stolen but hopefully I can make the 70km trip up.

Sorry to hear about your bike getting pinched.

What made you decide to go with Isengard after all?

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"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

1. My 3 hunters box hasn't arrived so I can't paint aragon in the 2 days before hand

2. Because the bike got stolen painting took a back seat. This means the Harad are far from done with only about 5 days remaining.

This left the Uruks as painted, and I really like that list.

Sucks about the bike man but yeah I think that list is super solid. Curious to see if the banner is worth it over more troops in the end.

Good luck!

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Cheers,

P