Personally, I don't like Scouts because of their Defence.
At one point cheaper, in 500pts you will get 50 Uruks, or 55 Scouts. Consider, though, that against most Good warriors, the Scouts are twice as easy to kill.

The archers are a little more flexible but simply not as powerful as crossbowmen. Crossbows may not be able to get into combat iwth the rest of the army, but they don't need to - they pack just as strong outside close quarters. At Strength 2, Orc bows don't really cut it compared to that.

I guess it depends on a couple of things - firstly, what theme you're using. If you are building a Scout-themed army, you'll have to have Scouts. Secondly, what you want your army to do. If you are trying to build a mainly close-combat oriented army, then Scouts might be better because they can continue to advance whilst firing their supporting missiles. If you want a slightly less forward-aimed force, then normal Uruks will do better.

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Thror Clawhammer
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I have to say Thror, I agree with you. I have first-hand experience of playing against both uruks and scouts in my friends army. I find that I end up picking off his scouts with bowfire[Joseph Aghababa looks on in horror as I take out his six strong front row in one turn]
Crossbows are much better than orc bows, I tend to completely ignore the orc bows.

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For one, I consider Scouts a Godsend, mainly because I am used to having to make the most of numbers with Orcs and Goblins. They are both very good armies in their way, but they do start to get rather limited in their usage. But to stay on topic, for someone who is used to Defence 5 warriors, you won't have to worry about the "low" armour of the scouts and you can bask in the light of F4, S4 troops.

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Ah, but Jack - in the end...who usually wins?
My Scouts are incredibly usful in the small scale battles that I use them in. I find that they make up good numbers, and, instead of having two small Fighting Uruk hai groups I can have three groups of Uruks, one being Fighting Uruk hai and the othere two being scout Units, they still have strength four and the high fight value of uruks. Their bows are quite poor but I tend to group tghem with my crossbows for extra shots. The scoout heroes are also of brilliant quality aside from Lurtz - Ugluks head taker is very effective for the low ccourage of Uruks and Vrasku is a killing machine, with expert shot and a 3+ shoot value , I will usually take one of these plus an ordinary uruk captain.

One thing I would never do with scouts however, is make up an army entirely out of them - they are always the minority part of my force but are extremely effective for tactical manouvres (even Jack would tell you that!)

These are the tactics that I usually employ (roughly) :


....................................................V...............
SSSSSSS............................SSSSSCCC...........F - Fighting Uruk hai
SSSSSSS.................Ct........SSSSSCCC..........S - Scout Uruk hai
...................BFFFFFFFFFFB...............................C - Crossbowman
...................BFFFFFFFFFFB...............................B - Beserkers
...................BFFFFFFFFFFB.............................Ct. - Uruk hai captain
.....................................................................V - Vrasku

I'd usually fit in a banner somewhere in the main phalanx of fighting Uruk hai and if I had more ponits I would add in some more uruk hai (fighting) and crossbows. I think this is a nice, well rounded force and now it could be tailored to your own needs. For example:

Against a fast army such as rohan, with relitively weak footsoldiers I might consider something like this:

.........................Ct.....................................................
SSSS.....FFFFFFFFFFB....B..B..B....CCCCC...SWWW...........S - Sharku
SSSS.....FFFFFFFFFFB....( T ).......CCCCC...WWWW......( T ) - Troll
SSSS.....FFFFFFFFFFB................................WWWW.......W - wargs


This is about 1000pts, although the troll could easily be removed, as could some wargs and crossbows. The idea of thwe scouts in this is for flank protection - they are protecting the phalanx


Overall, though expendable, scouts can be an asset to an Isengard player - especially when used appropriately and tactically.

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Joseph,I agree with you. I was only pointing out that its easier playing against scouts than uruks, because it is difficult for me to kill uruks.

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The defense of fighting Uruk hai is an obvious advantsge, but tactically, Scouts are just as important (especially in smaller point battles where numbers are important)

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for 500 points, you get 50 uruks and 55 scouts, but for most good armies, scouts are twice as easy to kill.

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But thats not the point Jack, firstly people do not max out thier armies with one type of troop, secondly, they are not twice as easy to kill. I have won matches with scouts where normal uruk hai would have been a wastw of points - points which can be spent elsewhere

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They are twice as easy to kill: KILLING NORMAL URUKS REQUIRES A 6, SCOUTS REQUIRE A 5 OR 6. TWICE AS EASY TO KILL.

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That's an interesting looking maneouvre joseph.
I had actually never thought about it htat way - I guess because of theme. Not that often that the two different armies would have fought side-by-side - I think the armoured ones were probably more siege specialists.

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Thror Clawhammer
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The thing about scouts is that people say the orc bows are good because they are manouevreable. O rc bows have not made a single kill in two games between Joseph and I, its his crossbows and fighting uruks that do all the killing.

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yeah your right orc bows aren't that good strength wise and its hard enough with normal bows to kill an enemy.

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what 'bout their legs? they don't need those

But bows can be shot on the move. Very good for certain sernarios.

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but crossbows have twice as much strength!

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He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces
-Sun Tzu: The Art of War

I would never COUNT on a Str 2 bow getting a kill. But that's no reason to say they never WILL get a kill. And once a Scout Uruk closes to melee they are still a 4/4/4 unit which matches or out-classes most standard Good troops. That is how I view them and play them.

For 90 points you can get 10 Scouts w/ Bows. These can move at half speed, tightly packed, and volley your enemies as you close. Depending on board size and enemy maneuverability you may be able to get two volley shots in before you engage. You may get two or three 6's over those 20 dice. As you get closer you could probably get one round of standard bow fire ( 4+ hit ) as well. With the total of those 30 rolls to hit you could easily count on maybe 4 - 6 hits. Depending on the target you probably need a 5 or 6 to wound. Not great odds but even one kill is one kill.

When you finally close an engage you still have some respectible stats to fight with. And since you have 10 Scouts all in one tight little group at the point you meet the enemey you can pretty much guarantee you will be able to set up for many-on-one fights. Maybe maneuver for some surrounds as well.

Obviously, you need to pick your targets. If you try this against a Hero, Gondor elite or a bunch of Dwarves then you're probably out of luck. But if you're engaging forces of Rohan then you may well take out a couple horse, riders or warriors.

In a 500pt army with a couple captains, a bunch of UH Warriors with Shields and maybe some pikes, a group of 10-15 Scouts with bows can be a very worth while investment.

OTOH Crossbows are stronger, better range weapons. But you are commiting more to them. They are about 20% more expensive and once you start shooting they are completely immobile. Once forces start clashing you may be unwilling to shot into your own troops but may also find your XBow men now one or two rounds of full speed running before they can join the melee.

imagine a world where uruk xbowmen could move and shoot, it'd be fantastic

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what 'bout their legs? they don't need those

yeah just chuck in a couple of repeater( pump-action ) Xbows then you got yourself scouts.
And what is the deal with the Uruk-Hai Heros

who would like to see a Hvy Armoured Ugluk?
in TTT he is the general on the rock despite the rohan ambush in the start of the film. I think a model of him in that pose ( arm raise with no shield ) would be awesome.

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I don't think he is Raven - especially considering he dies in the ambush
I've been led to believe that that is just an "ordinary" Uruk-hai Captain.

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actually uruk scouts make exelant point fillers

for instance my friend had 10 extra points to spend and said he would get a warrior with no shield. I told him it made much more since to get a scout with a shield seeing they have the same stats and he would be able to use the sheilding rule

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Gandalf,The Two Towers

*pokes topic* Isn't dead, is it?